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In Reply to: Then, I think at heart... posted by Harmonia on November 12, 2002 at 15:29:52:
in regards to the debate, another inmate made a good reference to a Latin Proverb:e gustibus non est disputandum ,
"over tastes one may not argue."Maybe one taste is all he needs to get the flavor:o)
mp
Follow Ups:
Of course, there is somthing like good taste AND bad taste.
argue with someone over why they like or don't like something...to each his own. I know the rules are different on forum boards...I view these as healthy debates. I think the French have an appropriate saying as well, Viva la differance!:o)
mp
Yes, vive la difference, but there is agood taste and a bad one.
In every field of life, be it wine & litterature & film...
Or how would you argue with someone who would rave on The Blood Beast part eleven ?
Education is the key word. An then on this level...Vive la difference.
But not on the level of $2,50 for a bottle of red wine...
I hope I made my case clear.
Patrick
...a l´Espagne!And it´s not a vin ordinaire: a more than decent red wine from Valdepeñas, or Cariñena, with good body, nice flavours, and a pleasant bouquet starts at 2,20 Euros. They are not cheap, just inexpensive...
Regards
BF
Well, in this world with the" over speed communication " every one knows the price ( the maximum ) of his product, and to have an bottle of wine for 2 Eu would be a little wonder.
The good spanish one start here in germany with 40 Eu.
Now is what you do understand on " good wine ". Country wines without pretention, in France you can have them for 10 Eu.
But you and me knows what good wines really cost...Is it not ?
And the whole point of the discussion, was something else....
There, you can make your point if you do not agree....
Is there a good taste or not, AND can we argue about it....Amitiés,
Patrick
I can choose a few bottles (let´s say six) of different decent red wines, prices ranging from less than 3 Euros, to let´s say 50 Euros, strip them from any label, print a number on each one, and send them to you.A list with the original labels, and the corresponding number assigned to each bottle will be kept under custody by a Notary.
Once you receive them, let them rest quiet in a cool place for 2 weeks, before opening them. Then you must go on and test them to your best, and qualify them under any terms you prefer. Once you´ve found your ranking, and after evaluating them against the best you can find for 50 Euros, you can e-mail the results to me, and then the Notary will send you that list, including prices for each one.
If, for less than 20% over the price of the bottle you find the best in this batch, you are able to find something better, or equally good, I´ll send you six more bottles of the one you have chosen as the best.
If you are able to sort them by price, making no more than 2 mistakes, then you´ll have a new batch, with my compliments.
If you make more than two mistakes, then you´ll pay twice the price of those bottles, plus shipping costs, and I´ll drink a similar batch, à la votre sautè.
Deal?
Regards
BF
But one with at lest 50 % chance to win...
Remember what was the starting of the subjet ?
I said the big difference of a 2 Eu against an 50 bottle of wine.
So here is mine :
Three bottles for 2.50 against three bottles for 40-50.
All the rest o your proposition I agree.
And I must be right in 100% in any case.
Bet ?
My point was that there are more than decent wines in the low price range: I put 2,20 Euros as a starting point to drink something enjoyable; but I never said that it would be equal, less better, than a wine 20 times that price (well, that might happen, too; but that wasn´t my point)With that I meant that you don´t need to go for the big ones, to find differences, hues in quality. Applying this to cinema, there are the great movies, like Kane, The Magnificent Ambersons, The Quiet Man, Intolerance, The Dead,..., which are clearly head and shoulders above the others; then, there are poor movies which, no matter who their author is, or how much they have spent at making them, will never qualify as good; while there are other films which, at a small cost, or without any pretensions for greatness, are excellent: the first to come to my mind is "Une Histoire Immortelle", a small (45 minutes length, just 4 actors, almost no action, and inexpensive in its production) crepuscular film by O. Welles, with himself and Jeanne Moreau as the only well-known stars, which is simply wonderful!
Back to red wines, what I said was that it would be difficult, even for anybody who has sipped many good ones, to range a bunch of bottles by their intrinsic quality (bouquet, flavour, aftertaste, smoothness, color, body...) and then guess their respective prices: more expensive not always means better.
That said, I wouldn´t find wise to argue that a wine costing twenty times more than another one would be worse than the least expensive.
You ask for at least 50% possibilities? Then, just flip a coin!
Anyhow, if you want to taste some bottles of decent, amazingly inexpensive, pretty underrated Spanish wines, just ask for them! I´ll be glad to choose a few for you, and send them to you, with their labels on: you´ll just pay the freight expenses, and sharing your opinion about them.
Are you interested?
Regards
BF
for 2.20, enjoyable ? I wish you may be right..But...Anyway what maybe for you, may not for me, or vice verca...
Quiet Man, a great film ? As much I love J. Ford, I do not think that it is an great film...More an macho and sadistic one...Wicht part of it are enjoyable when not boring...The place is beautiful and I was there on hollidays...
Well, I think actually that wine selling is more of an marketing thing, and that in this aspect you can AND you cannot compare them both...Like artistry and commercialism in the two cited.
En bref, in the real world you will it find hard work , to seek after good and cheap ( in the term of not expensive ) wines & films..
You may try to play toto & loto...
More expensive means generally better...And that is true for most of buyable things-Yes it is !
But again, of course, you can find "L´exception a la régle "...And yes, I would take your offer with pleasure, as getting old, do not automatiquely means ...getting insensible & bored...
BUT- I would pretend to have the oblication to send you some wines of the Rhines region, witch I relatively cherish and some of the more likable ( for me ) from Elsace...Deal done ?
E-mail me your address, and give me a few days for choosing them.Regards
BF
And don't worry about the notary or the list...
Victor the problem is the increase of price and quality in small steps..The chance to find out lay at less than 30 %...It is very difficult....
But i know you...You just want to drink all the good wine...
Cheers & santé !
***But i know you...You just want to drink all the good wine...He-he.... you got me! That was the whole idea. Never miss the chance of free drink.
...it would help a lot. And I´d include a small man-slicing device, no pedigree, but who knows?: North African origin, curved, inside a metallic scabbard, with four semiprecious stones, three in the scabbard, one in the hilt... Man, I´m looking at it now, and it looks like something, with all that engraving, both in the hilt, and in the scabbard! I have found it at the bottom of a drawer, and I remember having bought it, with some ivory pieces, and a decent sized geode, from a friend, some twenty years ago. Patina is somewhat thick, as it may well have developed on it for one century...I have no pictures, but I sure can get some, if you are interested.
Remember, bottles will have no label, nothing to identify them. And maybe I´m not paranoiac at thinking that US customs would put them under a strong magnifying glass, before allowing them to come in.
Let me know.
Regards
BF
I was of course was joking - I would not want to abuse the generocity of a wine lover. I do have good appreciation of good wine, and some experience in that area, but I am by no means an expert.I also see a process issue with the test as described by you. At least in my case, when I don't have a well-established absolute scale, just a semblance of it, I would do much better if all bottles were open and available at the same time. Given the potentially good nature of the wines involved and the absence of nitrogen displacement system in my home, that would represent a huge waste of good material, as, say, six bottles in a couple of days is well above my normal load. I have similar issue in audio, with my long term memory being good, but not good enough for rock solid comparissons, so I usually try to shoot for the side-by-side tests.
I think where I am today with respect to wine is that I know good one when I try it, and this is similar to the point about the movies that Patrick and I were making - knowledge that comes through experience and education. A true expert of course can taste hundreds of wines in one day and put them in a row... however God knows how reliable such gradation would be. Have there been comparissons done with several experts rating the same hundred of wines?
Even with the imperfections in the proposed test, I would see it as fun enough undertaking with six samples or so. I would, however, like to know the possible monetary penalty implications before commiting to it. If there is going to be a bottle of Chateau Lafite 1961 included in the batch, then I am out - I already have two mortgages on my home.
Shipping and customs-wise, I would not remove the labels. You could rely on my honesty in covering them right away with duct tape or brown paper. I am not good at telling the wine by its cork.
Regarding the deadly slicer, I would be happy to take my chances and cover the shipping cost. Shipping such stuff overseas is trivial, we do it all the time, as long as the customs form says Antique/Collectable dagger or something close it is free of duties. That ia generally speaking, of course. I don't recall receiving stuff from Spain, but Italy, Germany, France, England, Austria have not been a problem.
I´d rather choose it, as the whole lot won´t be more than 10 or 12 kilos, and their rates on that service, for such a small weight, will be very close to one on their Blue (snail) service: 48 hours, and they´ll be at home! And they´ll care for Customs dispatch, too.If you agree, e-mail me your UPS account number, and give me a few days to choose some stuff. Don´t worry about prices: I won´t be including any Vega Sicilia in the lot.
Regards
BF
E-mailed, please let me know if you received it.
It´ll take a few days. I´ll contact you by next Thursday.Regards
BF
So will " La Grande Armada " of wines find the way to you, Victor...
I am able to compare about six to eight wines ( when drinking them..)
After that ...trouble start....
and some things are in good taste....subjective to individuals....but there is common consensus.My neighbor has a sofa on a magenta kidney bean shaped shag carpet...He thinks it looks VERY chic and metropolitan. I find it to be extremely gaudy.
mp
A person has an absolute right to like anything he wants. However, if he were to include that sofa in the best design competition he would be laughed at, I presume. We DO have standards in any field, sometimes more than one set of standards, and therefore Friday the 13th would not be considered next to Amarcord by anyone with knowledge in that field.
people like different things, there really is NO universal standards.
Look how particular you are about films as opposed to another forum member...you both can define yourselves as educated movie lovers...I really don't know what we are debating. I was simply pointing out the obvious fact that people view movies in different ways.
I don't like very dark asian decor...asians would not find it as tasteless as I do. It is not to my taste. I am not missing the point....you and patrick are implying that education leads to universal standards of taste...I don't buy that. I am entitled to my opinion too.
mp
***you and patrick are implying that education leads to universal standards of taste...Not in the least universal, and I mentioned the existance of several, or many sets of standards.
However, not liking Brahms while understanding his place in the Universe is one thing, claiming that Michael Jackson is the second Mozart is another. Many thngs do come with the semblance of absolute values attached.
So I do not have ANY problem with your not liking the Asian decor - and I don't like it either. But I can see the development and art behind it, even if it is not MY art. I would never say it is ugly, just that it is not my taste.
But some ugly furniture shall remain ugly, regardless of its root.
In my boilling pot....
She will then be of the prettiest pink- Like an homard -
She will win.
***Education is the key word. An then on this level...Vive la difference.
But not on the level of $2,50 for a bottle of red wine...
I hope I made my case clear.Perfectly. And I agree with you. In EVERY field education is fundamental, and is the only foundation upon which the taste can be developed.
How's my French? (Courtesy of Altavista)
Did you write inf rench and Altavistass in english?
Or was this lost title word your home work ?
Try harder, next time around...
Avec amitie....
I tried it both ways. I started with the word Absolutely and it gave me Absolument. Then I did it backwards, and got Absolutely.I have to tell you that intuitively it didn't sound right to me. What does it mean exactly in French?
No, just jocking ! And one more misunderstanding, I meant that you only wrote ONE word...Witch is not to much....
Try harder & more.
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