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In Reply to: The 8-step "Secret" Hollywood Formula posted by Bambi B on December 13, 2002 at 12:24:29:
That is interesting. I certainly see some validity to these points, although I would have to think more about them.I would like, however, to add one more distinguishing feature that immediately separates what we should call "typical Hollywood script" from those used in the films many of us consider deep and thoughful.
It is the reliance of plot twists and turns, on events, or situations.
In a typical "deep" film (pardon me for using this terminology here - just for simplicity, really...) the drama and action are in the emotions of participants, much like in real life.
In a typical Hollywood script it is the situations which most often have nothing to do with real life and would never be encountered by any of us.
Bergman and Co can keep you riveted to your chair with simple (simple.... huh!) emotions, Soderberg and Scott need something to happen on the screen, something incredibly unusual, or the public is gonna leave, as not much else is typically there.
If you look at Hollywood history, it has not always been that way. Its better films used to have wit, energy, emotions and jumor. They were, and still are, incredible fun to watch.
These have been later largely replaced by action, events, and an endless panopticon of morons and social deviants.
While, as we have mentioned many times before, this trend is taking place apparently everywhere, Hollywood is most definitely the trend setter here, and rightly takes most blame.
Follow Ups:
VK,Your characterization of separating plot-driven action from character- driven action is highly important. When the movie moves because of a kind of clockwork force with deceptions, it is done to maintain a certain kind of interest- an intrigue as to what will happen next. When it is charcter driven it becomes what will a person choose to do next-(and remotely, what would I do?)- the intrigue of human action.
The first is just easier. The recent version of "Ocean's Eleven" is a case of being extremely plot driven so that there is little memorable about the charcters except Elliot Gould and Carl Reiner who had some personality. Clooney's Ocean did not have any believable inner drive, Andy Garcia walked around stiff as a board in his wierd wardrobe and Julia Roberts at $20,000,000 was getting $1,000,000 per useful word. Contrast this to the original Rat Pack version and esp. the great Las Vegas charcters in "Casino."
The second- character driven- is much more difficult. And you mention one of my favourites- Bergman- who manages to portray a real psychology and how deep personality causes people's choices in interactions. The difference too might be that "O-11" tries an impresive big scale external, epic and Bergman goes into the epic scale of one or two people's internal life.
As you recently heated the plate with the discussion of "Sola," I would be interested in applying the idea of plot-driven against character-driven to it. I am inclined to think that Sola's amazing violence is plot(incidence)driven to purposely de-humanize. Perhaps Pasolini didn't establish for viewers the two sides of Fascism- that it is a nightmare for those who oppose it, but there are many, many more people who fall for it and admire it's order, benefits, and clarity to the point of looking away at it's costs. In pro-fascist movies we see politics, morality, military, public order, and justice based on enforced compliance with the needs of the production of wealth and maintainance of a pyramidal power structure as a kind of meritocracy. With Pasolini, we are forced into seeing the costs close up but still in a general way. A plot-driven rather than character-driven world portrayed.
Cheers,
Bambi B
drive." Wonder if he picked up any speed in that other ocean, that is,
the one on Solaris? - AH
Thank you Bambi, interesting observations regarding the Salo. I think I am going to agree with you that it is unfortunately to large degree done at conscious level, or as you put it plot-driven. There is not much the characters contribute to its development either, they are merely pawns in that game. That is not surprising given the film's and its creator's history, and to a large degree it is the result of the deteriorating ego. However, I suspect that just the two types outlined by you are not going to cover all cases, and the marvel of Salo lies not really in its plot, and most certainly not in acting, but in the atmosphere that only a great director can create. So in essence it becomes a director-driven film.As I said, to me its plot was shocking and unforgettable, but far more so was the almost unbearable atmoshpere of horror without exit, without end. For instance, Salo was the only film that I remember where I closed my eyes for an instant, as the suffering had truly reached the hight that was too much for any human being to handle - the moment when they scalp the victim.
We had all seen attempts at presenting horror on screen - from adolescent Friday the 13th to the pretentious yet flat Apocalypse Now (its ending where the horror... horror... narration failed to produce well, horror) and Saving Private Ryan, we all had seen guts open and blood gush, and that stuff usually doesn't move a muscle in out bodies. So how did Pasolini manage to make me recoil in shock? It was the thick atmospere of REAL horror that only a true artist could create.
And since then, whenever I try to create the sence of utmost horror in my mind, I always envisios the Death Dance that only Pasolini, with his ultimately perverted and perhaps too conscious mind, could create.
And to support this I would once again mention the Konchalovsky's segment in Lumiere and Company, where there was no plot and no actors, yet the director simply painted a masterpiece with nothing more than just a camera angle and its position... or so it seems.
VK,Yes, the distinction is between Salo and the others is the palpability of the violence, the sensation that is, as you say, true. I sense that you may have a similar reasction to it that I do of combined repulsion with simultaneous admiration for the sheer skill of conveyance(?)
I had a similar reaction to realistic violence the first time I saw Eastwood's "Unforgiven," e.g., the sherrif's (Hackman) beating of English Bob really hurt.
But it was not the relentless violence in Pasolini's. Perhaps Pasolini intended to overdrive his point in an allegory: that fascism contains a necessary relentless violence such that a reasonable person must turn away from.
I don't discount you're suggestion that Pasolini was also just diving off the deep end either. As we now know, he had troublesome hobbies.
Thank you for mentioning Konchalovsky and the marvelous "Lumiere et compagnie". After I saw it, I wanted to build a replica of the cinematographe. It appeared to have about ten parts but it's nature enforced a wonderful series of complex images. I looked up Konchalovsky and he is also the screenwriter of one of my favourites from your part of the world, "Andrei Rublev."
Cheers,
Bambi B
***Yes, the distinction is between Salo and the others is the palpability of the violence, the sensation that is, as you say, true. I sense that you may have a similar reasction to it that I do of combined repulsion with simultaneous admiration for the sheer skill of conveyance(?)Yes, that's exactly it.
I have always had mixed feelings about Konchalovsky, as he was an official Party cinema man. Some of his films were simply puky. But he most definitely has talent.
I presume some of those older machnes can be purchased today perhaps even on ebay, but of course the prices would likely be high. I agree, it is amazing what could be done with them, and I strongly recommend the Lumiere to anyone interested in fine films - what a wealth of styles and expressive techniques, each one a small gem.
I gave at the office!
There are two parts to movie making: a public and a director.Unfortunately one doesn't lead the other, they slide together, hand in hand.
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