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In Reply to: Re: The 8-step "Secret" Hollywood Formula posted by Bambi B on December 13, 2002 at 16:46:33:
Thank you Bambi, interesting observations regarding the Salo. I think I am going to agree with you that it is unfortunately to large degree done at conscious level, or as you put it plot-driven. There is not much the characters contribute to its development either, they are merely pawns in that game. That is not surprising given the film's and its creator's history, and to a large degree it is the result of the deteriorating ego. However, I suspect that just the two types outlined by you are not going to cover all cases, and the marvel of Salo lies not really in its plot, and most certainly not in acting, but in the atmosphere that only a great director can create. So in essence it becomes a director-driven film.As I said, to me its plot was shocking and unforgettable, but far more so was the almost unbearable atmoshpere of horror without exit, without end. For instance, Salo was the only film that I remember where I closed my eyes for an instant, as the suffering had truly reached the hight that was too much for any human being to handle - the moment when they scalp the victim.
We had all seen attempts at presenting horror on screen - from adolescent Friday the 13th to the pretentious yet flat Apocalypse Now (its ending where the horror... horror... narration failed to produce well, horror) and Saving Private Ryan, we all had seen guts open and blood gush, and that stuff usually doesn't move a muscle in out bodies. So how did Pasolini manage to make me recoil in shock? It was the thick atmospere of REAL horror that only a true artist could create.
And since then, whenever I try to create the sence of utmost horror in my mind, I always envisios the Death Dance that only Pasolini, with his ultimately perverted and perhaps too conscious mind, could create.
And to support this I would once again mention the Konchalovsky's segment in Lumiere and Company, where there was no plot and no actors, yet the director simply painted a masterpiece with nothing more than just a camera angle and its position... or so it seems.
Follow Ups:
VK,Yes, the distinction is between Salo and the others is the palpability of the violence, the sensation that is, as you say, true. I sense that you may have a similar reasction to it that I do of combined repulsion with simultaneous admiration for the sheer skill of conveyance(?)
I had a similar reaction to realistic violence the first time I saw Eastwood's "Unforgiven," e.g., the sherrif's (Hackman) beating of English Bob really hurt.
But it was not the relentless violence in Pasolini's. Perhaps Pasolini intended to overdrive his point in an allegory: that fascism contains a necessary relentless violence such that a reasonable person must turn away from.
I don't discount you're suggestion that Pasolini was also just diving off the deep end either. As we now know, he had troublesome hobbies.
Thank you for mentioning Konchalovsky and the marvelous "Lumiere et compagnie". After I saw it, I wanted to build a replica of the cinematographe. It appeared to have about ten parts but it's nature enforced a wonderful series of complex images. I looked up Konchalovsky and he is also the screenwriter of one of my favourites from your part of the world, "Andrei Rublev."
Cheers,
Bambi B
***Yes, the distinction is between Salo and the others is the palpability of the violence, the sensation that is, as you say, true. I sense that you may have a similar reasction to it that I do of combined repulsion with simultaneous admiration for the sheer skill of conveyance(?)Yes, that's exactly it.
I have always had mixed feelings about Konchalovsky, as he was an official Party cinema man. Some of his films were simply puky. But he most definitely has talent.
I presume some of those older machnes can be purchased today perhaps even on ebay, but of course the prices would likely be high. I agree, it is amazing what could be done with them, and I strongly recommend the Lumiere to anyone interested in fine films - what a wealth of styles and expressive techniques, each one a small gem.
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