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In Reply to: Is it any different than the strict formats of classic poetry? posted by cfraser on December 14, 2002 at 14:53:36:
cfraser,I (and many others it seems) don't object to a format or formula for any kind of art. As you say, they permeate every realm and are actually necessary. Without form (formula)there is no sequence or structure that allows an outsider to understand the work. The 20th C. tried formlessness, but there still had to be an explanation of the attempt to make events inclusive and random so of course, 'deliberate randomness' became another cliche- or formula. "Cue spontaneity."
In poetry there is meter and sonnet form, haiku, etc and a lot of pepole are drawn to making or reading a particular form. One of my favourite formats for solo keyboard music is the fugue, which is so rigourous that some music analysts say that Beethoven never wrote a real one, despite those included in the late piano sonatas, Ode to Joy, and the Grosse Fuge. There are fewer real formats to painting but there are categories of genre painting, and the many "isms" that amount to the same kind of set of rules. With surrealism, wasn't it Andre Breton who tried to exclude and almost supress painters that didn't play the game to his standards?
But, a format or formula is actually a great way to limit the field of play and then force a kind of cleverness to make new statements still within the tight rules. People like to see how well an artist plays their chosen, familiar "game." Others- and I do too- like to see the form subverted for something liberated. But there can also only be liberated forms in relationship, by contrast to the established ones.
As for film being art, I would say that all film is art because it corresponds to the basic premise of art as a object made with an intention of affecting the thoughts and/or emotions of a viewer. That's a broad view, but the 20th C. so completely liberated art (Duchamp) to include almost everything with an aesthetic intent.
Then, there is good and bad art.
Cheers,
Bambi B
Follow Ups:
I'm not sure what art is, have lots of thoughts, but to me music and movies are entertainment, like novels, they don't have to have a higher purpose that elevates them. They can, but I don't demand it during my times of relaxation, as long as it's not totally dumb.The new movie Adaptation has a main theme that is very much in line with your topic, so much so that I wonder if you might have seen a preview showing that got you thinking. This sounds like a movie that all movie buffs should see.
cfraser,I don't expect art to always have a higher purpose to elevate- entertainment can be enough. To me, it's always interesting to separate out activities that are intended to affect people in some way and look closely. Then, there is a consciousness of what a single person or small group is saying to a larger group. With entertainment though can be packaged other content. In war-time America, it is interesting to watch the film portrayal of war and heroism. "Casablanca" is entertaining but can be also seen as beginning to end a message for the US (Rick) to stop it's isolationist attention to business (Rick's Cafe) and get into WWII (the Lazslos). M*A*S*H* and "Apolocalype Now" are fun but also talk about the meaning of becoming- or resisting becoming- warriors.
Thanks for mentioning "Adaptation." I think it is in general release this past week, but haven't seen it. The premise of the intertwining of life and film is always interesting. (There are so many strange films about film making- "Shadow of the Vampire"- director Murnau hires a real vampire to star in "Nosferatu.") It's a little difficult to imagine Cage and Streep together, but Cage has a dual role as identical twins, so it's Cage+Cage+Streep. If "A." has the quircky energy of Jonze's "Being John Malkovick" it should be fun!
BTW, I'm embarassed to say, but the only real studio preview I ever attended was "Flash Gordon" in 1980!
Cheers,
Bambi B
I have not seen Adaptation either, not sure if it's even out here yet. So what I say is just based on my interpretation of the story synopsis I read. Besides the intertwining of life and film (Woody Allen anyone?), a main theme is supposed to be a screenwriter trying not to succumb to the Hollywood formula for scripts, yet his life and subsequently his script does follow the pattern. It almost sounds like an "art imitating life imitating art", or "life imitating art imitating life" double whammy. One I'll have to get to.I have also only been to one "preview", and funnily enough it was Apocalypse Now in '79. The movie was pre-released in 3 or 4 cities to get audience reactions to different endings, before picking the release ending. The "Toronto ending" was not used, and I have never seen the released version...think I'll watch the Redux version tonight.
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