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In Reply to: Ma liste des 151 et 2 meilleurs posted by Bambi B on September 24, 2003 at 16:47:45:
You guys are making my AltaVista translator tired.So - you love Fantomas too?
Follow Ups:
Victor,Но не только вечером!
Bam
That's pretty good, Bam! Studied at school?
Victor,Thanks for the kind words- that's encouraging.
I did study English, French, and German in school but I've always been fascinated with Russia and Russian culture*** so over the years I picked up a few words.
Honestly, I believe I know perhaps 100 words and have little syntax. To read, I have to study each letter to establish an overview. My pronunciation: A kind Russian friend says I sound like the noise resulting from backing a Moskvitch over a Dutch person..
But I just don't see how a person can get to understand other cultures without some of that language. I wish I knew Italian.
Victor, what other languages do you know?
Cheers,
Bam
*** For example: About five years in which I declared to listeners of my radio programme that Prokofiev was the greatest keyboard composer ever.
The subject line apparently turned into character map numbers. It should have said:Но я использовал слоева все мои уже!
BB
That was an old-fashoned way of constructing a sentence. A modern way would be 1-2-7-3-5-6-4.These days I am only good in English and Russian. I used to know German quite well, and a bit of Italian, but have not done any practice and they lie there rusting. I can still jump start myself on German, and have done that when traveling there, but I don't use it normally.
The Russian culture is incredibly rich, rivaling those of France, Germany, England, Italy, but it is younger of course. I never lost my love for it - I feel sorry for come Russian immigrants who leave such a beautiful culture behind.
The Italian language is incredibly fascinating to me - I just love its music - that is linked or course to my love for Italian opera. Never studied French.
Russian language is tremendously difficult for an English-speaking individual, with some sounds completely impossible - I guess this is our payback to them for making jokes about our accent. There is no American who can pronounce the simple things like Tanya right. They all say Tan'ya. There are other difficult spots. The Russian grammar is real torture, with rules that read like whole chapters from Britanica - you can't learn it by the textbook, when each rule breaks up into twenty sub-rules, all with exceptions.
Victor,Yes, I just can not keep everything in order. Early on, I thought that Russian had a wonderful casualness and the rules were actually lax, and with a different approach to indefinite articles (compared to German), Russian was more free-form, but as I learned a little more, it was obvious that I was just unaware of all the modifying rules that were being invisibly applied all the time.
As for pronunciation, that fooled me at first too. I am reasonably good at imitating sounds, but there is a subtlety in Russian when there are combinations of sounds that I just can not do. Individually, there is less mystery, but like French in which there are constant contractions of articles into verbs, spoken Russian has a sensation of long, convoluted strings of sounds. I also thought that this would be like the long combination words in German- but it is not. I have to repeat things several times to train myself for each sentence!
I would love to be able to read Pushkin and Gogol in the original. O.K., Checkhov and Nabakov too.
When do I get my second lifetime?
Cheers,
Bambi B
You are right that the sentence building rules are basically non-existent in Russian, but that simply means that you can build many different constuctions where English would only allow one, and each one would have different flavor.You can take a simple 3 or 4 word sentence and move those few words into all possible configurations, and each one will have its appropriate use - with some overlap, of course, but still, many more verieties than in English or German.
All languages have something unique about them, but even more importantly, people think differently in different languages - making good translation of stream of thoughts so much more challenging.
Maybe we all should become cats with their nine lives...
Victor,I wanted to mention too that you're writing on English is quite amazing for a second language- idiomatic, large vocabulary, better speling than mine, clear technical writing, and complex constructions. How did you learn?
If you don't mind my asking, how would you describe your speaking?
The Russians I know are all enthusiastic conversationalists and take it seriously. And murderous as chess players..
Bam
Thank you Bam for your kind words - I hope at least some of them are deserved. I taught myself. When I decided to leave the USSR I began my study, and after about nine months I could read newspapers and maintain a conversation.One tool I found completely indispensible in learning new language is the existance of adapted books. In Russia the foreign language studies were conducted at very high level. They had created the whole slew of books with texts appropriate for all grades - all the way to the university language department level. Those books were small, and each one would have the dictionary in the back - the one tailored for that particular book. That is much more quick and convenient than using a large dictionary, in effect promoting such reading - on a bus, subway, etc. By going through such a book you would pick up perhaps a 100 new words and some new structures. I started with the very simplest ones, and just kept reading them non-stop. In addition I bought a very good English grammar book.
My spoken English varies depending upon the situation, mood, level of nervousness, etc. When I am relaxed and in friendly surrounding it can get pretty natural and fluent, but at other times it can be stiff and lacking any eloquency. I do have a pretty heavy accent.
If you can find a group of culturally oriented Russian immigrants, then that could be very interesting and stimulating environment. We are fortunate to have many such friends. I consider Dmitry a member of that group, BTW - we meet sometimes. But as any other group, the Russians come in many shapes, and some can be outright ugly.
Victor,Sorry, if you mean the 60's Marais film in which he plays a double role of criminal mastermind and journalist, I have only heard about it. I went through an overly-long Bergman, Murnau, Eisenstein, Truffaut, Fellini, and Bunuel phase since becoming interested in foreign film and have never caught up.
It's certainly intriuging since Fantomas is said to be more "American" in it's action and dynamics but still psychologically French.
Do you recommend it?
Cheers,
Bambi B
Fantomas was incredible for us as teenagers growing up in the communist Russia. It was obviously just a silly spoof, but it provided so much material we were all so hungry for! All that Western life, beautiful men and women.... women.... you can say that again, Patrick!... we all had hots for Lady Beltham... those sleek cars and Jean's suits - man, that was LIFE!To a sophisticated adult it would most likely look just toooo silly, but when you are 13 - it's a different story.
For many years Fantomas was the most famous movie character in Russia.
But I think it had its funny moments, so perhaps just out of curiocity if you come across that marvel, take a look.
And de Funes - he certainly had his VERY funny moments in the movies. What was the name of that movie, Patrick, where he played a charismatic poacher Blerot (?)? Some of his early movies were indeed fun to watch, even though leter his act became a bit tired.
After Bergman, Murnau, Eisenstein, Truffaut, Fellini , Fantomas will look quite different . Kind of James Bond from the 60s ,Jean Marais doing most of the stunts .Only goal was to entertain so don't expect a great scenario but still some action and fun . Louis de Funes plays in most of them.Last one from 1965 supposed to be the best . A un peu vieilli...
JFT,Interesting. I had heard that Marais is quite good as the shadowy Fantomas but as you say, the overall treatment is said to be a bit dated to the 60's action style.
Not "Diabolique".. but not even "Diabolique" was when remade.
Cheers,
Bambi B
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