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In Reply to: Wait a sec . . . posted by Troy on January 15, 2004 at 08:40:32:
I feel the all-too-familiar defensive notes rising in your voice... that is bad.Me... I call them as I see them, no matter where they come from. So just recently I slammed a French film (Kaka full blast rating) and a Russian one, and today praised an American film.
To me American movie industry represents just a small portion of the world muvies. And not necessarily the most interesting, just voluminous. Apparently to you it is opposite, but that is your issue.
Funny, I did't hear Patrick scream bloody murder over my criticism of some French works - you should take some tips from him.
One would be foolish to deny the existance of very definite general (or typical) flavors for movies made in different parts of the world.
Russian films... French... Italian... Japanese... Polish... German... American... Swedish... Spanish... Chinese... Czech... Finnish... Brazilian... Mexican... Hong-Kong... Korean... Belgian... Norwegian...
...they all have strong local flavors. Some tend to be much more insightful - guess which ones? Some tend to gravitate to simplicity and fast action... guess who?
But there was good lesson to be learned from perusing the Cannes lists I gave you - as they provide a good glimps at the world as the whole... something typically not visible to an American viewer, but something that is usually VERY obvious to the movie buffs in other parts of the world. If you keep denying this you are falling behind.
I agree that Dancer in the Dark is hardly a great film, but that was just the jury vote - the list of runner ups speaks for itself.
Last thing you want is to adapt that silly America=World attitude.
The rhetorics in your last paragraph? I was used to us when living in the USSR, thank you. But that was in the totalitarian society.
Follow Ups:
Funny, I did't hear Patrick scream bloody murder over my criticism of some French works - you should take some tips from him.Feel free to bash bad American movies. LIT is not a bad movie, it's quite good in fact. It's subtlties were obviously lost on you, a man that normally goes out of his way to find subtlty. Vic, you didn't even watch the whole thing!
...they all have strong local flavors. Some tend to be much more insightful - guess which ones? Some tend to gravitate to simplicity and fast action... guess who?
There you go again. The American industry produces more films of EVERY type than all those countries you listed, combined. There's bound to be a higher percentage of crap.
To you, an ideal film is a slice of life story about the locals. Culturally interesting, but ultimately, the human story remains the same whether it's Maoris trying to keep their culture alive or a Hindu family preparing for a wedding. I don't go to the movies purely for a sociology or anthropology lesson. I go to be entertained. Most foreign films don't get the fact that it's entertainment first.
Last thing you want is to adapt that silly America=World attitude.
Don't like American cultural Imperialism, eh? American cultural Imperialism doesn't care what you or I think. It is a mindless juggernaut.
America is the great melting pot. Every culture bubbles into the stew, flavoring it. We don't care about other cultures as much the rest of the world does because we already have them living with us on the same block. How many Frenchmen personally know Japanese people and have a sushi bar in the neighborhood? How many Chinese people know Swedes personally? Well, for them, seeing how these cultures live and interact is a new and revelatory thing. For Americans, every day, bud, every day.
The best and the brightest from all around the world end up here in every profession for a reason. The freedom to kick ass. This dynamic allows for a film industry like ours to flourish unlike in any other country. Without the American business to emulate, the rest of the world's movie industries would be at a loss for how to make movies. Without an American movie industry, there is no foreign movie industry. Americans invented the medium and continue to move it forward.
It is not about bashing American movies! It is about to bash BAD movies, one can only note that most of them are US productions because this an money industry! And with even more vigor as the others countries are now making the same merde, and that is fatal.
What will be left are only a few fools, who like tubes or vinyls records or analog photography. In one word " old farts ".
And that is tragic, because our lost is not our gain.
***Funny, I did't hear Patrick scream bloody murder over my criticism of some French works - you should take some tips from him.
Feel free to bash bad American movies. LIT is not a bad movie, it's quite good in fact. It's subtlties were obviously lost on you, a man that normally goes out of his way to find subtlty. Vic, you didn't even watch the whole thing!Sure, I didn't even finish it! It was BORING! I seldom fall asleep in front of the screen.
I'll grant you this: if I were less tired, I might have finished it.
But be fair - I didn't slam that one.
***There you go again. The American industry produces more films of EVERY type than all those countries you listed, combined. There's bound to be a higher percentage of crap.I don't know the proportion, and you don't know it either... I don't work on percentages. I see a movie - I rate it, that is all. But of course over the time my scale had developed based on many films from all over the place.
***To you, an ideal film is a slice of life story about the locals.
Locals? Who are the locals? Locals to me? Here, in Delaware? In NYC (loved the one last night)? In Paris (loved one a few days back)?
I don't think what you are saying makes any sense. How "local" was Passion in the Desert?
*** Culturally interesting, but ultimately, the human story remains the same whether it's Maoris trying to keep their culture alive or a Hindu family preparing for a wedding. I don't go to the movies purely for a sociology or anthropology lesson. I go to be entertained. Most foreign films don't get the fact that it's entertainment first.I don't have problem with your view of the movies - that is your business. I expect a bit more of movies, and I rate films based on my expectations. I am not forcing anyone to adapt my views, just suggest what might be interesting... if they go and see it - fine, if not, I don't lose much sleep.
***Don't like American cultural Imperialism, eh? American cultural Imperialism doesn't care what you or I think. It is a mindless juggernaut.
It is... but I really care little what it is. When a good movie comes from America I rate it highly... simple as that. I don't get involved in the cultural wars.
***America is the great melting pot. Every culture bubbles into the stew, flavoring it. We don't care about other cultures as much the rest of the world does because we already have them living with us on the same block.I don't think this as as true as you are describing. Many Americans are completely oblivious of the world outside their home town - the isolationism is in American veins.
***How many Frenchmen personally know Japanese people and have a sushi bar in the neighborhood? How many Chinese people know Swedes personally? Well, for them, seeing how these cultures live and interact is a new and revelatory thing. For Americans, every day, bud, every day.
Well, to some, yes. But you are mostly talking NYC.
***The best and the brightest from all around the world end up here in every profession for a reason.
I never doubted that. But we should not be arrogant enough to presume that this great country is the best place for everyone.
Like every other country on Earth it also has weak spots. High culture is most definitely one of them.
***The freedom to kick ass. This dynamic allows for a film industry like ours to flourish unlike in any other country.Well, unfortunately most of it is like fast food industry. Unfortunately we, the Americans, let our formerly advanced movie culture decay in favor of schlock one... I feel very strongly that way.
That doesn't mean good stuff is gone - just that there is less of it, in my view.
***Without the American business to emulate, the rest of the world's movie industries would be at a loss for how to make movies.
Well, I wouldn't be so sure about that. Perhaps you should review the things done in Europe before that.
***Without an American movie industry, there is no foreign movie industry. Americans invented the medium and continue to move it forward.Consider this. Without any questions there has been tremendously great and positive contribution of the American movie industry to the rest of the world. Granted.
But also granted is another trend... that of corruption. Today more and more films in more and more countries immitate the American money-producing trash. You can see it all over the globe. And this is not something to be mightily proud of.
Anyway, big subject and good foundation of endless discussions.
Locals? Who are the locals? Locals to me? Here, in Delaware? In NYC (loved the one last night)? In Paris (loved one a few days back)?The locals in the location the film takes place. Mongolian films are invariably about Mongols doing Mongolian things.
***America is the great melting pot. Every culture bubbles into the stew, flavoring it. We don't care about other cultures as much the rest of the world does because we already have them living with us on the same block.
I don't think this as as true as you are describing. Many Americans are completely oblivious of the world outside their home town - the isolationism is in American veins.
Nonsense. Within 5 houses of my own suburban California home I have black, white and asian neighbors. I have 1st generation German, Brits and Chinese immigrants. How many Icelanders, Japanese or Russians or Mongols can say this? Its' right under our noses every single day, so obvious, no one seems to notice . . . outside the USA.
Regardless, just as many Euros and Asians are ALSO blind and oblivious to the world outside their home town.
Like every other country on Earth it (America) also has weak spots. High culture is most definitely one of them.
Because art is business driven in the US. In Europe's golden age, all the money was controlled by the church. The church sponsored all art. That's why the Louvre walls are covered with Bible scenes. Today, business controls the money. The US is the strongest business economy in the world, therefore, we have the largest sponsorship of the arts. No, not the government (we are disgustingly behind on that), but business.
Now, note I didn't say "High Culture". High Culture (opera, classical music, poetry) is dead, run down by the onrushing express train of the machine age. The art of the 20th century that will be remembered 500 years from now are disciplines like industrial design, advertising, architecture, movies etc. Places where the US excelled over all other countries.
***The freedom to kick ass. This dynamic allows for a film industry like ours to flourish unlike in any other country.
Well, unfortunately most of it is like fast food industry. Unfortunately we, the Americans, let our formerly advanced movie culture decay in favor of schlock one... I feel very strongly that way.
Yes, but because it's so strong, producing hundreds of movies a year, there is also room for a lot more good small films to leak through than in a place that produces 3 films total per year.
***Without the American business to emulate, the rest of the world's movie industries would be at a loss for how to make movies.
Well, I wouldn't be so sure about that. Perhaps you should review the things done in Europe before that.
Before that? Before movies?
Or do you mean stuff like German Expressionism which was really simply a style of art direction? The French New Wave films about nothing? Please elaborate what I'm missing.
Today more and more films in more and more countries immitate the American money-producing trash. You can see it all over the globe. And this is not something to be mightily proud of.
You see the glass half-empty, I see it half-full. You can fight the world if you want, but the world doesn't care. It will just mow your ass down mericilessly if you let it. Better to keep you head above the wave and see the good when it comes.
Anyway, big subject and good foundation of endless discussions.
Boy howdy!
.
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