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In Reply to: Re: Why restrict the praise to the 50's? It's definitely one of the posted by rico on January 23, 2004 at 06:53:47:
...I don't consider it the best SF film of the 50's any more than I view 2001 as the best SF film of all time. As we're both apparently big fans of the genre I'm not trying to be confrontational or argumentative, but let's give some of the other SF genre films a closer look, shall we?Regarding films in the 50's, my personal inclination is that one of the first SF films of the decade, The Day the Earth Stood Still, edges out Forbidden Planet for the number one spot. Other 50's films worthy of contemplation for best SF of the decade include the aforementioned Invasion of the Body Snatchers for it's correlative cold-war paranoia theme and an oft overlooked little film, The Incredible Shrinking Man, for it's contemplation of freakish events which change lives, human nature, public curiosity, life/death issues and the unknown.
Without a doubt 2001: A Space Odyssey is an exceptional film in several areas, groundbreaking in fact, but I find that I like the near-future SF shocker Kubrick directed immediately following 2001 better (i.e., the controversial and prophetic film he directed based upon Anthony Burgess's novel "A Clockwork Orange"). However, there are many other great science fiction films and several with lofty contemplative themes which might fairly lay claim to the mantle of "greatest" or best of all time.
For instance, Fritz Lang's silent masterpiece Metropolis with it's theme of class warfare between upper world dwellers and subterranian workers and the unforgettable robot Maria comes to mind; if not the greatest, it was certainly far ahead of it's time. Other great SF films which I find arguably more satisfying fare than 2001 include, but aren't limited to: Stephen Spielberg's A.I. Artificial Intelligence, Ridley Scott's Blade Runner (The Director's Cut), James Cameron's The Abyss and Terry Gilliam's Brazil. I'm even tempted to list John Carpenter's The Thing, which is closer to John W. Campbell's short story "Who Goes There" than the original 50's era film of similar name (i.e., The Thing from Another World).
Finally, I even find myself enjoying Pau Verhooven's scathingly sarcastic future fascist bug-flick, the tongue 'n cheek take on Robert Heinlein's Starship Troopers more than Stanley Kubrick's molasses slow overly contemplative symbolism-heavy 2001, not that 2001 isn't a beautiful film and in one or two important ways groundbreaking in it's own rite. Of course, I would rank 2001 ahead of Starship Troopers in regard to importance for that very reason, but for pure enjoyment, nah.
AuPh
Follow Ups:
With the exception of Starship Troopers (never seen it, put off by the trailer) I have and enjoy all of the other films you mention, especially "The Day the Earth Stood Still" which my father took me to when I was nine. But "2001..." remains for me at the pinnacle and along with Citizen Kane and Apocalypse Now Redux is one of my three most watched and most loved movies. The quality of the current DVDs of each allows one to really suspend disbelief and enjoy them more.You didn't mention "Destination Moon" or "Rocketship XM"
By the way, the relatively new DVD of "Journey to the Center of the Earth" is a STUNNING transfer and even those horribly fake "dinasours" toward the end are somehow not as bad.
Will you be buying the nine DVD "Alien" box set?
I didn't mention Destination Moon and Rocketship XM because both films are good but they aren't SF classics by any stretch. Neither film actually deals with extra-terrestrial life forms or futuristic scientific concepts that hold up. Don't get me wrong, I like both films and view them with nostalgia, but I find both very dated and fairly unimaginative by today's standards.As for the Alien box set, I doubt that I'll be purchasing it. Only the first two movies worked for me; IMHO, that was the story arc and what was done after is a travesty.
One additional note on Forbidden Planet: I believe that a 2 disc SE is planned later this year! If it contains a newly remastered transfer of the film (i.e., perhaps even Superbit), I'll probably have to buy it again.
SIGH!
AuPh :o)
There ARE aliens on Mars in this film and they chase our heroes back to their ship.
I love the genre too. I have to say Forbiden Planet is definitely one of my personal favorites. I enjoy Leslie Nielson when he played it straight. The fact that the story is a sci-fi re-write of The Tempest give the story weight and gravity. It had a spectacular post-war modern look and I used to work for the guy that did Robby the Robot's voice. Saw a juicy new print at a revival theater just a couple of years ago and it was wonderfully fresh and relevant.I still love the contemplative nature of 2001. Every time I watch it, I end up dwelling on it for many days afterward. Clockwork was sci-fi in its day, but as the world caught up to it's ugly vision of the future, it plays as pure social commentary today. Fascinating to watch It's genre evolve. Great film and I grant you, a much more entertaining watch than 2001, but 2001 just has that heady and surreal mystery about it unlike any other film ever made.
Blade Runner is definitely a classic as well. Syd Mead's production design was absolutely spectacular and the Scott's noirish lighting created a mood that closely paralleled Philip Dick's sad and alienating book. Sean Young, before her breakdown, just melts my heart in this movie.
I'd definitely add Brazil to the list too. The director's cut is a must with this one.
The original Alien flick is a classic as well. Not sure how sci-fi it is. It really plays as more of a horror film.
I prefer "The Shape of theings to Come" over "Metropolis", though I haven't seen either in decades.
"Starship Troopers", "Shrinking Man" and "The Thing" are really just grotesque and tacky entertainment. Matinee fare. I'd have to move "The 5th Element" to the top of my mindless entertainment sci-fi movies. I grin all the way through it every time I watch it. It slaughters every space opera and sci-fi cliche with a certain sweet reverence. I loved "28 Days Later" that came out last year too. It was an update of the "Omega Man" and it had a great modern feel.
The sci-fi genre is overflowing with good kinda bad movies. Other guilty pleasures include Carpenter's "They Live", "Escape from NY" and "Starman". "Soylent Green" is a pure velveeta creamy smooth cheesefest. "Logans Run", "A Boy and his Dog" oh man . . . I could go on for hours.
While mostly a matter of personal preferences there are some places where we are more closely in agreement: movies like Blade Runner, Alien, Brazil and perhaps The Shape of Things to Come (i.e., except for the latter's overly pompous dialogue and speeches, which is stiffling in it's sincerity). There are others where I definitely see more THERE there (i.e., Metropolis, The Incredible Shrinking Man, The Thing and Starship Troopers), but in some cases you have to understand the source material and the Director's intentions to fully appreciate the material. This is especially true of both The Thing and Starship Troopers.In The Thing, based on John W. Campbell's short story, Director John Carpenter was trying to envision the most ALIEN alien being conceivable while playing off of the paranoid distrust of isolated researchers; in so doing this version manages to remain truer to Campbell's original concept than the film noirish "carrot man" more in keeping with it's cold-war allegory.
In respect to Starship Troopers, this much maligned "bug" movie deserves every bit as much credit for Director Paul Verhooven's successful capturing of the original story's subtext of a "future-perfect" fascist society as it does criticism for his straying from Heinlein's more cerebral vision.
While I will agree that John Carpenter's low budget Escape from New York and big budget Starman are good films that sequentially bracket The Thing, the former (Escape from New York) suffers from the comic book simplicity of it's two dimensional anti-hero Snake Pliskin and the latter (Starman) from it's forced sentimentality. BTW, I do tend to think of John Carpenter's Starman as a better film than Stephen Spielberg's more popular E.T., if only because Starman takes a more thoughtful adult approach to an almost identical theme. Of these three sequential Carpenter films (i.e., Escape from New York, The Thing & Starman), I'm of the opinion that The Thing is far and away the best.
AuPh
Yes, I recall "Shapes" being on the preachy side. I loved the art direction of both "Shapes" and "Metropolis", but enjoy the scope of the Shapes story more.I'm familiar with the original Campbell story for "The Thing". I thought the whole cold war/ red scare aspect of the first was much more to the point with the original move, even if the creature was laughable. Carpenter's relied too much on the gratuitous gore and grotesquerie. He should have taken a page from "Alien" where you don't see the creature all that much, but build tension and paranoia by NOT showing it. The original "Bodysnatchers" flick was better because of the social climate of the times too.
Yeah, I read Starship Troopers several times as a teenjager and this movie version also suffers from too much blood and guts and not enough on the fascist , but idylic culture (which was the meat of the book). Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed ST very much (and even got to work on some toy products for it), but I think another much more thoughtful and provocative film could be made from that book. This, coming from a guy that digs "They Live", "The Road Warrior" and "Escape from NY"! Like anyone should listen to me.
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