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In Reply to: Good example: I've seen both The Seven Samurai & The Magnificent Seven, the American west version. posted by Audiophilander on January 29, 2004 at 08:05:09:
***If I were to point toward any of Tolkien's books as children's fantasy, it would probably be The Hobbit, which was intended for younger readers.Not according to a person I respect and who actually managed to read most of the first book... she said it plainly that it was a book for children, and not to bother with it.
Since I know and value her knowledge and depth, I will take her word for now over yours - OK?
She got bored with it (she ain't a child any longer) and never read more of it.
Follow Ups:
I'm not criticizing the opinion of a person whose knowledge and depth you respect (i.e., after never finishing the first book), but we're discussing subjective view points, are we not? If testimonials were that important, I'd simply toss out the name of someone like Steve Hoffman, an intelligent, highly regarded audio engineer who's opinions are respected by many on these boards as well as his own! He not only claims to have read Tolkien's Ring trilogy, but rereads them annually! My point being that one intelligent person's viewpoint is just as good as another's; it's just different strokes, and critics don't always agree.AuPh
You made a strong statement that - obviously inspite of many opposite opinions - the book is not children book.So far I see no justification for that. It is commonly called children's book and I think for a good reason.
I think those who happen to like it, took serious offense in others calling it children's book, as they must feel that diminishes their idol's standing... well, that's THEIR problem.
Actually, that person was even harsher in her statement, but I shall spare you that part.
Those who revere these works don't regard them as children's books any more than you might regard, say, Tolstoy's War and Peace as a children's book!> > > "...many opposite opinions..."
Not that many, unless you're counting your's & Patrick's repeated over & over again, ad infinitum. ;^)
AuPh
You apparently don't get it.The books on sorcerers, little kids fighting dragons, cute monsters, Tooth Fairy, and all that shit are ALL presumably children's, unless proven otherwise.
It is that "proven otherwise" that you are missing.
The burden is on YOU.
On the other hand, only a complete idiot would claim the War and Peace to be in that category - I don't know if you are grasping that difference.
Only the thinking of putting this two in a phrase, make me shivers.
The profundness of the first equal the dumbness of the other.
It is some mysterious "young adults" versus... versus... Gee, I don't even know.But I agree - the sense of proportion is completely missing here.
;^)
> > > "You apparently don't get it." < < <No, I get it just fine; you seem to be locked into a stubborn tunnel viewpoint that would even have your optometrist throwing up his arms in defeat!
If you had described Tolkien's books as a series originally recommended for young adult reading we might've found room for compromise, because regardless of the author's intent these novels have been marketed as such and I can provide reams of evidence to that end. BTW, "young adult" does not mean "children's" literature; young adult tends to imply post adolescent literature.
In numerous reviews I've read concuring with this viewpoint most readers of Tolkien develope a passionate desire to reread the novels later in life, because they take on a different significance. IMHO, this is what the BEST literature does, because an initial reading or surface understanding of such a complex work will grow and changes with subsequent readings.
> > > "...only a complete idiot would claim War and Peace to be in that category..." < < <
Even though I won't bother categorizing you as "a complete idiot" because you felt insulted that someone would dare to tread upon the hollowed name of Tolstoy by comparing one of his weighty works with another more contempoorary author's weighty work which you hold in much lower esteem, I will say that you are much like book 2 of any 3 book trilogy (i.e., no one can figure out where you started or where you're going nor what you'll do when you get there). ;^)
AuPh
Must be the same ones that still real comic books.I didn't say anything about their age, BTW... but I think your response says it as it is... even if you didn't intend it that way.
Bad Victor, ...bad, bad! You certainly made an inferrence about the age of Tolkien's readers & viewers; no offense, but that's the sort of slippery manuever one might expect to see Outside!> > > "Must be the same ones that still real[sic] comic books." < < <
See ya in the funny papers, big Vic! :o)
Cheers,
AuPh
...that getting personal when you have nothing to answer with, is really bad form.It is something that "young adults" should not do.
But I guess you still just don't get how much of your white underbelly you exposed with that silly "young adults" line?
Speaks volumes.
...such a blatantly hypocritical statement should amuse even those who might agree completely with your rigidly inflexible and subjectively vapid viewpoint on LoTR; I'm genuiniely embarrassed for you Victor.> > > Your mama should've taught you that getting personal when you have nothing to answer with, is really bad form." < < <
Wha-? You're whining now because I indicate that you might be weaseling and calling you (i.e., but NOT name-calling) on something you clearly did through innuendo!
> > > "But I guess you still just don't get how much of your white underbelly you exposed with that silly "young adults" line?" < < <
LOL! Oh, I get it, you're having difficulty grasping the distinction! Well, I'm sorry if this plays havoc with your perceptions, but there is a verifiable difference between children's literature and that which is regarded appropriate for a young adult and adult market. If pressed I'll gladly point you to sites containing INFORMED opinions which concur with my own, but I'd rather not contribute further responsibility for raising your blood pressure (i.e., any more than has already apparently occured).
> > > "Speaks volumes." < < <
The Library of Congress couldn't spin you out of your LoTR malapropisms.
Regards,
AuPh
Hey - that is your constitutional right: you like children's books and films - enjoy, no need to get this defensive, or try to force those who don't want to.My only objection is when you start presenting the naive and poorly made children's opus as something on par with... with... well, there is that life outside the children's books.
But I guess the War and Peace comparisson already told us the whole story.
I recall, when my daughter was around 13, she would argue and rather hotly, that Michael Jackson was the second Mozart.
OTOH, your attitude on this subject is another matter, but let's not go there.> > > "I recall, when my daughter was around 13, she would argue rather hotly, that Michael Jackson was the second Mozart." < < <
Naw, that would probably be Joe Bonamassa! ;^)
Cheers,
AuPh
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