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In Reply to: Re: Private Ryan: the sick joke. The new low for the US movie industry (yes, industry...) posted by DaveH on July 12, 1999 at 10:53:15:
***As stated before, you have the right to like or dislike any movie, however I am willing to bet that you have no true idea of what it was like to be in combat or more importantly on the beach that day.I certainly have not participated in any action, if that is what you are saying. At the same time, there is such thing as education and many of do know about ancient Grece without actually having been being there. Yes, you listen to all who were there, you read, you watch *good* movies and you form your opinion.
Also, I would be the last one to ridicule or even imply any disrespect for the great things that our father did for all of us - either from the Western part or the Russian. I don't think we should even bring this into discussion. We are not talking about sacrifices, we are not talking about history, we are talking about one lousy movie. Let's discuss the movie.
***I know two men that were there.Many of us do. For instance, both of my parents were in the Army defending Leningrad during its 900 day siege where 1 million died. My father-in-law went through the German concentration camp, escaped, joined the Partisans and then the Red Army, finishing the war wounded in Berlin. Yes, I too have some points of reference and I DO take them *very* seriously.
***Neither one of them ever, and I mean ever talks about it. From what I have read the battle scenes are very realistic. Do you find the personal and group heroism in this movie unbelievable?
??? Please see above. No, not me.
***Do you find yourself thinking that you would never risk yourself for anyone or anything as the charactors in the movie did???? That has nothing to do with discussion of movie. Movie is art form (or is supposed to be). We were discussing the particular artwork, not what it stands for. The subject and means of art are often intertwined, but they are never the same. Many people confuse the two, though.
***If you do, you are not alone.???
***The reason this movie was made was to show younger generations just what those brave men did, individually and collectively. All of us need to understand the sacrifices made on our behalf, and the price we must pay if/when our leaders choose to go to war. I sincerely doubt that we as a nation could ever accomplish such a task again. I am not comforted by this thought
When talking about educating the young, we must stay away from cheap Hollywood presentation that does more harm than good to anyone.
When I watch the Rambo or the Commando movies I see the hero killing ten enemies with a single bullet with bodies fly ten feet in the air. I know it is fake and unreal and at the same time I hear the teenagers laugh and cheer. It is sort of OK, it is garbage any way you look at it.
Now, I see almost the same stuff in that "serious, educational, real" Private Ryan. I see ten Germans killed with the same bullet, their bodies fly ten feet in the air. I see the barrage of German bullets not hitting any GI's at close range (where did they learn to shoot like that, those lousy German soldierss with their MP-40's not able to hit a man from 20 feet?). I see the US sniper hitting a 1" target from 450 meters - a bullshit better reserved for the Sniper flick, it is so laughable. I see poor actor Tom destroy three Germans armed with MP-40's and not getting a scratch. Yep, all that stuff is so real that I feel ashamed.
Yes, I too hope that that movie does at least some good to the young. Will it? I don't know. But it will most certainly not go down into the annals as a *good* movie. Rest assured that twenty years from now people will be talking about Fellini and Bergman, but not Spielberg. He is just one mandane artisan of rather opportunistic nature. Yes, and the close friend of our beloved Mr. Clinton.
Victor.
You compare Speilberg with Kubrik et al and state that he is not a director like them or perhaps should not be considered a director at all. Perhaps I agree with you. Speilberg will never be considered a great director of "art films" yet he will be remembered as a great movie maker and more importantly as a great "story teller." This is, after all, what he does, and in my humble opinion better then most. He enchants his audience with stories. Just because his movies are not filled with Faustian angst doesn't mean that they are vile crap. His movies tell stories; stories of wonder and enchantment, stories of adventure, stories of good and evil. Narrative films such as Hook, Indiana Jones, and Schlindler's List will never be compared to La Dolce Vita or Citizen Kane, however, they will be brought up in comparisons between Speilburg and other great story tellers who used film as their medium.Saving Private Ryan was about the men of our father's generation and their reality. Service to others, self sacrifice, patriotism; these were more then words to that generation, they were simple but absolute truths which they activily embodied. I thought that was what Speilberg accomplished, to show these simple yet fundamental concepts in a modest story that took place in a very complicated time and under the circumstances of war. Did he get carried away with making his first war movie? Perhaps, but not overmuch. Saving Private Ryan is a movie about the heroism of war and the good citizenship of peacetime that such heorism demands. It is a story about patriotism and patriots. A subject deserving attention and a story, perhaps a bit simplistically, but in the end well told.
***You compare Speilberg with Kubrik et al and state that he is not a director like them or perhaps should not be considered a director at all. Perhaps I agree with you. Speilberg will never be considered a great director of "art films" yet he will be remembered as a great movie maker and more importantly as a great "story teller." This is, after all, what he does, and in my humble opinion better then most. He enchants his audience with stories. Just because his movies are not filled with Faustian angst doesn't mean that they are vile crap. His movies tell stories; stories of wonder and enchantment, stories of adventure, stories of good and evil. Narrative films such as Hook, Indiana Jones, and Schlindler's List will never be compared to La Dolce Vita or Citizen Kane, however, they will be brought up in comparisons between Speilburg and other great story tellers who used film as their medium.
I don't have problem with that. However, I do start getting a problem when such "hot dog" (to borrow Steve's expression) movie is being loudly trumpeted as the best movie of the year and it becomes a larger than life celebration cause. Mind you, even in the US, where movie making is almost totally dominated by garbage production, there is Allen, to name just one.I don't mean to beat this to death, but my problem with Spielberg's style is the cheap methods he uses, stuff one normally associates with the Friday the 13th. There ARE better ways of telling a story. One doesn't have to reserve to "Faustian angst".
***Saving Private Ryan was about the men of our father's generation and their reality. Service to others, self sacrifice, patriotism; these were more then words to that generation, they were simple but absolute truths which they activily embodied. I thought that was what Speilberg accomplished, to show these simple yet fundamental concepts in a modest story that took place in a very complicated time and under the circumstances of war. Did he get carried away with making his first war movie? Perhaps, but not overmuch. Saving Private Ryan is a movie about the heroism of war and the good citizenship of peacetime that such heorism demands. It is a story about patriotism and patriots. A subject deserving attention and a story, perhaps a bit simplistically, but in the end well told.
You are probably right and in final analysis that movie is perhaps going to have some positive impact. I hope it does.
Regards,
Victor.
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