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In Reply to: That would be you, Victor posted by Troy on February 10, 2004 at 08:04:35:
...how exactly does John Belushi skewer me.As far as I can tell, the idiot died a horrible dog's death, much in line with his "art"... and I am still around.
Who's exactly is getting the last laugh, Troy?
As far as your line that what I consider the majority of the world's movies is actually just the... lesse... ah, yes... "3rd world films" - well I have already responded to that bit of wisdom... the narrow America-centric viewpoint...
Why would someone discard the whole of Europe and Japan as "3rd world" is beyond me...
Perhaps our education system is in far bigger trouble than I realize?
Follow Ups:
s
Why do you have to get "the last laugh" on Belushi? Why does his comedy hurt you so that you need to say things like that? This vindictiveness must stem form your feeling personally insulted by the comedian. Again, you can't laugh at yourself, you supercilious little man.Who cares about his drug addictions? As though other artists all over the world have not had their own addictions through history! It's common with many artists, I think because of their boredom with the mundane people and the repressions of the regular world around them.
The 3rd world comment: You and orejones are so dang sensitive! You guys are so easily baited.
You can tell me how narrow-minded and America-centric I am, but you're wrong. Like I've said since the first time I've communicated with you. I watch foregin films all the time. And I watch American films. You don't see me coming in here every day and bashing French cinema, do you? Victor, YOU are the one that comes in here every day spouting the same old snobbish diatribe on Hollywood and American movies. Give the daily America bashing a rest. We got it the first 300 times. It has become extremely repetitive and boring. Stop biting the hand that feeds you.
...that Victor is *not* little.
You, on the other hand, have now reduced yourself to insults.Perhaps it would help you to know, that V. *particularly* hates it when someone here -- you'll know who I mean -- lauds stuff like Return to the Planet of the Apes, or Star Wars 1/2/-.
*I*, however, can enjoy Pirates of the Caribbean, Open Range etc. as excellent pastimes while still finding myself being moved more deeply by, say, Black Orpheus, Nights of Cabiria, Wild Strawberries, Grand Illusion, Yojimbo etc.
clark
Troy, I grew up with John Belushi -- lived close by, we went to the Wheaton Central High School together. I followed his career closely, have seen all his movies and watched him perform many times at Second City. He WAS a great artist and he DID die a terrible death, but I would never label him an "idiot" as Victor has. A drug addiction is a terrible thing and he deserves sympathy and not ridicule. I'm glad you can see him through the pain of his addiction and recognize him for his comedic genius he truly was.
!
YOU started the rather idiotic line of him "skewing" me, so eat your lumps and your words now, do not whine... BIG man.I do despise people like him because they DO have PROFOUND negative effect on our children. When you or tin fall all over yourself watching his idiotic escapades - that is your business, but you should have eyes enough to see that the social morons like Belushi do promote and create more anti-social deviants.
For the life of me I can't connect a deviant like Belushi to myself... so I find your repeated "can't laugh at youself" so silly... he was a social moron, a drunk and a drug user, I believe I share none of those "qualities". And I am saying this not as some prude - we all had our wild days.
But I DO see the conenction between him and many others, that's for sure, and that's regrettable.
You say "who cares about his drug addiction"? Well, if you don't, then all I can tell you you should. Funny I have to tell that to a grown man.
Regarding the sensitivity... look in the mirror again. I was just typing my thoughs after watching a particular film, you came out like Jack from the box, swinging wildly.
Some of your statements were indefensible, and you got nailed for them. Leak your wounds and move on.
Regarding my concern with Hollywood... darn right I am concerned: this is my country and it hurts me to see it slide in some areas, its culture being one of them.
You apparently don't share that concern, whatever comes your way is fine, I refuse to take that "whatever".
That is why I vote with my dollars, and that is why I tell others about that, hoping more people will stop patronizing the garbage.
A fight in vain? Should I repeat here again the words of Cyrano? I am sure you can figure that out... right?
If I was living in Spain, Russia or Zanzibar, my prime concern would be with the culture of Spain, Russia, Zanzibar... but the US is my home and feel I must try to make it a better place, not accept people like Belushi as the best this land can produce.
.... trying to espouse onto others your personal preferences and ethics. It's terribly annoying that you persistently refer to films the masses enjoy as garbage - as if you were some annoited authority appointed to stem the degredation of culture (in light of what you've written, "ethics" is actually a better word then "culture").
I will keep calling them as I see it, and you will have the choice of either reading my posts or ignoring them.Interestingly, I do not divide films into those for "masses" and those for... for... I dunno... elite, perhaps? What would be your word here? Some require more education and preparation to be appreciated - but education is hardly what separates the masses from the elite.
I simply watch all kinds of films - as I mentioned before, most of them the not so good films on American cable - and state my opinions on them. If you find my opinions interesting for whatever reason - read them, otherwise...
I am shocked, shocked! to discover that you equate expression of personal opinion with espousing onto others my personal preferences. For instance, I don't like NPR, so I simply ignore it.
You can always find conflicting opinions in this group, so you are hardly forced to read my posts, let alone to be forced to do anything by them.
What I CAN promise you is that I am NOT gonna start giving any special allowances to any country or studio or director... I think this is the only fair way of doing this.
On a personal note - I wish more people contributed to this group. But we had periods here with five posts per week, so it seems. So if you have an opinion on something you liked or disliked, please post it.
BTW - the great majority of films that I wrote about here are not some super-sophisticated creations that take tons of education to appreciate - most of them are rather simple stories, except made well. So in essence they are movies for the "masses" - see, I even used that word here.
There's a fine line between expressing one's opinion and trying to persuade others to go along with your opinion (which you have expressly stated is your hope). There's also a fine line between expressing one's opinion and referring to others tastes as garbage.You've clearly crossed by lines by magnitudes of miles. I truly believe you have no idea how deragotory, pretentious, and condescending your words read to other folks. Like you, I'm calling it as I see it.
You may have the last words. Your post history suggest aruging with you is a futile endeavor.
s
But peeing on your burns and wounds has been used for ages as the way of treatment.
a
.
For the life of me I can't connect a deviant like Belushi to myself... so I find your repeated "can't laugh at youself" so silly... he was a social moron, a drunk and a drug user, I believe I share none of those "qualities".So much of what I say to you, you don't understand, or choose not to.
Belushi is NOT like you. He is making fun OF you. THAT'S why you don't like him.
You say "who cares about his drug addiction"? Well, if you don't, then all I can tell you you should. Funny I have to tell that to a grown man.
So why was it ok For Bogart and Spencer Tracy to drink and smoke themselves to death? Actors addictions are as common as dirt. Show me an actor and I'll show you a drunk, a wife beater, a drug abuser- an addict of every stripe. Why single Belushi out? I don't care about Belushi's drug addiction any more than I care about WC Field's drinking or Errols Flynn's sex addiction. Nope, better not let your kids watch ANY movies if you're concerned with actors setting bad examples.
Regarding the sensitivity... look in the mirror again. I was just typing my thoughs after watching a particular film, you came out like Jack from the box, swinging wildly.
Go back and read your original post about Monster and how "American film is a culture of GARBAGE". Every day you come to this board and spout this sort of rubbish. When someone fights back, then you get all whiney and defensive. You can't have it both ways. I will give you back the same level that you give me.
I can't STAND when arrogant snobs like you spout quotes from things like Cyrano and then act superior because you don't think I know Cyrano. It's a perfect example of your uninformed assumptions about people that could possibly think Belushi is funny. Again, why can't an individual like both? Your closed minded highbrow arrogance is monumental.
You say you're concerned with America because you live here. Don't try and make it become the America of your skewed ideals. Part of American culture is that we embrace charachters like Belushi because he deflates pretension and higbrow snobishness. America is NOT about people spouting Cyrano references. It has NEVER been about people spouting Cyrano references. So don't try to create an America in YOUR image. America is what America is. Deal with it.
This is the funniest part. I agree with you about how Hollywood is over run by accountants, MBA's and brown nosing yes-men. Yes, the artists, the ones that are trying to make good movies are getting squeezed out on every side. But the difference is that I know that it has ALWAYS been that way in Hollywood. Your ideals about a Hollywood of the bygone days are false. Hollywood has ALWAYS been about business and money first. That anything of artistic worth comes out of the industry, both THEN and NOW is a miracle. Actually, I think that American cinema is pretty strong here in the first few years of the 21st Century, mainly because of a thriving independent film business working outside the Hollywood system.
You are obviously being irritated by my lack of concern with Belushi as you put it "laughing at me". Well, this is simple. Pigs always laugh at decent people. Pigs like Belushi also tent to die like pigs... and most decent people don't even notice that.Truth is, I go trough my life without any concern for what some low life moron thnks about my pursuit of trying to make something with my life, for my family and people around me.
You on the other hand, seem to be much in tune with his feelings. That is your choice.
The sorry truth is that Belushi the pig only was successful because people like you couldn't get enough of him.
I guess you two found each other.
About the drug/alcohol abuse in actors, etc. You are as clueless as ever. If you show me the Tracy film that turned anyone into an alcoholic, promoted drug use and moronic behavior, I will agree with you.
Your "hero", OTOH, promoted the drugs and pig life... see the diff? Probably not.
***Go back and read your original post about Monster and how "American film is a culture of GARBAGE".
If you want to comment on my posts then at least have the decency of quoting it right... don't be a cheap liar.
For the "quote" above you deserve to be called a liar.
And then you drop this bit of "wisdom":
"America is NOT about people spouting Cyrano references. It has NEVER been about people spouting Cyrano references."
I don't know whether to laugh or cry over your numb-headed line like that.
Perhaps you TRULY believe America is about living like pigs, like Belushi, and decaying alive. Then thank you, but somehow I managed to miss THAT America.
As far as your "recomendation" of what I should and should not be doing in America - you can perfectly stick it in your ear, as this is my county just as much as it is yours. If you want to live here like a pig, there is nothing I can do about it, but there are plenty of good people I care about.
Anyway, you will neither scare nor impress me with your escalating tone, but you can bore me at some point.
Your complete lack of any sense of humor or irony is stunning.Why is it OK for you to vilify Belushi in death, but it's not ok for him to poke fun of snobs like you in life? Why the double standard? Because you're better than him? It's obvious you think so, but you, regardless of all your education and worldlyness, are not. The roots of your arrogance are deep and obvious.
WRT the Spencer Tracy reference, I do understand and agree with the difference you point out, however, that doesn't take away from the fact that Tracy and Bogart both died because of their addictions, just as Belushi did.
Personally, I don't care if "Animal House" promoted debauchery (again, like it was the first movie or story to ever do that). If an individual has hany brains in their head, they can tell the difference between sensible behavior or not. No movie is going to make them smarter. If people have the tendency towards that lifestyle, they will do that, if they don't, they won't and no mere MOVIE is going to sway anyone's opinon.
You can say that I misquoted you if you like. If you read your original post, that "quote' I stuck in there certainly fits your tone and attitude. And it's no different than putting the words "Belushi is my hero" in my mouth in your post. You are well aware I never made any claim like that.
"America is NOT about people spouting Cyrano references. It has NEVER been about people spouting Cyrano references."
I don't know whether to laugh or cry over your numb-headed line like that.
Regardless of your emotional conundrum, the fact remains.
You can continue to use your book knowledge as a weapon of repression on those that are intimidated by it. It won't work with me. You're wrong to think that someone that enjoys a comedian like Belushi doesn't know or enjoy the classics too. It's called "perspective" and "balanced tastes". This balance, in all your overwhelming bias, is something which you have none of.
***Why is it OK for you to vilify Belushi in death, but it's not ok for him to poke fun of snobs like you in life? Why the double standard? Because you're better than him? It's obvious you think so, but you, regardless of all your education and worldlyness, are not.Oh boy... let me repeat what I already said once and then leave, unless you find something fresh to say. I told you I have no problem with him poking fun at me - I couldn't care less, as I have no respect for him.
I suggest you read my previous post as this has already been answered, but as I said, apparently you are not willing to accept my complete disregard for him and his "poking fun", you are still trying to convince me I should feel offended, insecure or sad...
Sorry to disappoint you... as I said, I have no reaction like that.
Will you finally get this simple message?
Am I a better person than a pig who created some of the most revolting characters and finally died like a pig? I would certainly HOPE so, but I will leave the final judgement to the creator.
says it all. Hollywood is no different now than it was in the past 100 years, pre Code and after, except for the demise of the studio system and advances in projection and sound. American films have always been accused of lowering moral standards, and this has occured in each decade since "The Great Train Robbery". And classic films, about 10-12 a year, have been produced all along.
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