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In Reply to: what the movie "where Eagles Dare?" Eastwood posted by bolt on February 28, 2004 at 18:49:36:
I like "Where Eagles Dare" also. Not sure why you mention it in a thread about propaganda movies though. I consider it an action/adventure movie along the lines of "Raiders of the Lost Ark", only much more entertaining because it has many more dead Nazis and much less (none, in fact) John Williams music.
Follow Ups:
Yes, it is the wrong place. It just one of the " war films, " one in manys.
Wouldn't even really consider "Where Eagles Dare" a war film per se. Yes, it's about a (fictional) WWII mission, but it's done in the same sort of over-the-top Saturday matinee mood as "Raiders of the Lost Ark". The Germans can't shoot straight, managing only to graze one of the protaganist's hands, an injury which is quickly shrugged off. And the heroes possess a couple of small knapsacks that yield a seemingly endless supply of explosives and ammunition, all of which unerringly find their mark.It's probably one of the most "fun" WWII movies to watch, and I guess in that sense it could be considered propaganda, especially since it was released at the height of the Vietnam War. It doesn't suggest any "good reason" to fight (like the "Green Berets", a decidedly pro-Vietnam War propaganda piece), but does suggest that war is smashing good fun!
Plus they had a helicopter in this.
"Would not consider"....One of the most ...WWII movies to watch....
I saw it long time ago , and I remember only a few good actions scenes....But it has nothing to do with what I meant.
Hitch did made more real propaganda films loke " Aventure Malgache ".
... means "intrinsically". There's no contradiction there. Just a misunderstanding on your part. Sorry about that.
Sorry too! But I still see a contradiction there and I know what " per se " means.
And I did not mean a contradiction by words but of the spirit of your missive.
Still see it.
Raiders --- I dunno they did get their faces melted off and that has to count in the good column times two. And Marion did shoot a truck full of them, and Indy shot a few and ran over a few and had them flying off cliffs and even managed to poison their Nazi monkey - okay the Nazi's did that by accident.And let's not forget the slam to to French for rolling over to Germany in the characer of Belloq.
and the music...yes I can actually hum the theme to Raiders and still find myself doing it from time to time after all these years. His scores fit the films and are made for the films.
But then Mozart was considered a talentless bum by the critics of his era too just like Shakespeare as an enetertainer. The Spielberg/Williams combo when it is realized how well the films do after 25-50 years might actually get some respect. Of course looking at the sale of the nearly 30 year old Jaws compaired to ANY other DVD sale from that period might clue some people in...but I guess not. Interestingly the other big one will be Star Wars - ohh I see one part of that combo.
I liked his score for "Jaws". And "The Poseidon Adventure" was good early work. I just don't like his later scores. "Raiders" is a two hour movie with three hours of music. The main theme is nice. But the intrusive non-stop droning of his music in most of the Spielberg or Lucas movies is irksome. In "Raiders", it's as if Spielberg never trusts the audience to its own emotions. Evil Nazis? Cue the evil Nazi theme, lest we mistake them for friendly Nazis. Marion might be dead? Cue the weepy violins. A tomb full of snakes? Cue the atonal oboe "gross-out" theme. It's too much of a "good" thing.
his is ridiculous...you have to look at the film for what it is...it's basing itself from totally over the top pulp novels of the 30s and 40s. Raiders of the Lost Ark is totally over the top and so too is the score - even the main theme - the big brass etc. This was the same for his score in Superman...Big loud over the top like the heros.I don't see any other composer in film remotely as good - at least not for these kinds of films. And his Score of Schindler's List is the best score of any film I've ever seen...and I've seen a lot. Having Perlman didn't hurt either.
People often say Spielberg manipulates the audience well so does every director - and most of the time Spielberg does it in thekinds of movies where he SHOULD do it. E.T., Raiders. Where he gets into trouble is when it's badly handled as in Amistad.
And none of this is Williams' fault...he doesn't really control how the music is going to be used in the film - he just makes the piece. And Schindler's List as a stand alone piece of music I'll take over anything I have heard from Mozart.
The melting was of course the atomic energy...As for Mozart...Did he copy as much as Williams did?
But I still find " his ?" music enjoyable.
I thought what he did for Oliver Stone's "Nixon" was brilliant, ver Shostkovitch-like.
Holst-like....Shostakovich-like...You see THAT is the problem....
Well Tarantino's Pulp Fiction copied a TON of films before it...the fact that Pulp Fiction is vastly superior to all the films it copied ? is a mere by product.Improve on what came before, but use what came before to inspire the here and now.
Well, that is a point of view. Why not, like a good cook...The matter is, do I like the music or not...
you either like it or you don't - no explanation is really necessary.
Do I detect a hint of irony in you...Or in me?
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