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Re: Tough times for sci fi fans...

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In Reply to: Tough times for sci fi fans... posted by Joe S on April 18, 2000 at 19:25:06:

Always been "tough times" unfortunately. Maybe the Hollywood perception of what will sell is the cause or maybe it is not but whatever... Have given up and just concentrate of trying to make the best of the good parts leaving the plot holes out of my mind.
Sniff sniff. :(((

Follow Ups:

But those plot holes seem to get longer...... Joe S 08:23:56 04/19/00 (13)
...and longer. Its like they are becoming the filler and the good stuff is measured in minutes and seconds. The closet thing to sci fi I liked at a moview theater in the past year was The X Files. Not really sci fi, and the conspiracy/paranoia thing does wear thin if you focus on it too much but I was at least able to enjoy the movie. The other stuff starts making me so mad I want to throw something at the screen. Like watching Jodie Foster chew up the scenery in the pod in Contact as she is exposed to the "wonders" of her otherworldy journey. Gads, I wanted to puke!
Sigh. I'd love to see Lucas go back to the original premise of Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back in the next installment of the prequel. But its two strikes for the preteen demographic / merchandising opportunity with his last two outings so I'm not holding my breath...
joe
- Re: But those plot holes seem to get longer...... Ran 06:00:39 04/20/00 (9)
  I cannot agree more. I refrain from going mad over particular pet peeves for fear that too many people may take offense but that Jodie Foster bit. Eeeeeks. All that oh, it is wondrous - it is beautiful bit. I would give a lot to be in her place but I would be too busy seeing everything and cannot see myself going around saying that it is .. And of course I hated the character played by Matthew Mc. (no opinion about him +ve or -ve)
  Pure science pleeeese!!! Sad sigh. Actually, I can sometimes enjoy a flick like Independence day since I see it as a joke or a comedy of sorts - Frankly I even see Capn Kirk as a comic character sometimes. X-Files is good sometimes but....
  I think good advice given to me a while back here was that I should stick to reading sci-fi. Good idea I guess if I want to read more than I do now.
  One thing though... I am averse to any grand message of good evil blah blah (Star Wars original stuff) but that I recognise as a personal belief and preference when it comes to sci fi. I prefer movies to focus on the science and / or the art but not in good evil etc. So, I did not miss too much of that. The other movies I see are usually classified as art movies in the US.
  Also, be careful about labeling demographics and merchandising -- I have never bought any doo dad ever but frankly if others do like em, let them have it. More money in the economy I guess. Every generation seems to think that it is the latest generations fault for all kinds of new things. I am not so sure about that but then I am an optimist and like a lot of changes while continuing to like the old too. Maybe that is why I love sci fi.
  BTW, you, V and L were very civil in the discussion below about POW treatment, etc. and showed some good knowledge too. Thanks. I hang out or rather "lurk" in a couple of german car forums to get info for my car and people are so nuts there and seem to get so offended so easily.
  - You know, its kind of fun...... Joe S 06:45:20 04/20/00 (8)
    ...to talk about something other than audio for a change - Wait, hey (moment of personal realization) you mean there is something to life other thatn audio?!? Wow! Whoda thunk?
    Regarding the promotional tie ins - I really dont mind that they occur so much, I agree its a nice spiff to the economy. I guess what I didnt expresss well is my frustration with Lucas apparently coming to view the SW franchise primarily as a vehicle for advertising them first and offering entertainment as a movie second.
    I found the first two movies were a delight in that they had the unique ability to cross big demographic boundaries and appeal to children and adults alike. I'll never forget the opening of Star Wars. I lived in Houston at the time & after reading about it in Time I went the local premier. The house was packed and the audience had to be 40 - 45% under age 12. It was a riot. The movie was so fresh and the audience so engaged it was an absolute blast (kids cheering when the good guys won, booing when Darth Vader came on screen) and the most pure fun I've ever had watching a movie. The second was even better I thought for being a bit darker - but from there its been the descent into kiddy land and the proliferation of pointless fuzzy little characters and robots with no real role in the plot apparently there just to result in more tie-ins hanging off the racks in the toy department of every store you walk into.
    It seems he's abandoned the adult audience completely - at least I know I cant connect with it the way I could the first two. And somehow after the impact of the first two it feels as thogh he's totally sold out and abandoned the adult audience altogether...
    joe
    - Re: You know, its kind of fun...... Ran 10:04:57 04/20/00 (7)
      I agree with much that you write - in fact all but from a different angle of perspective. While I dont like the fuzzies (actually I detest them), I am not sure that you should conclude that it is today's audience that he is catering to. I think the percentage of people who like the fuzzy crap is probably unchanged (or at least let us presume that it is for a moment) The problem is with him and his perception of what he thinks the younger generation wants. After all, he is more far removed in age from today's gen x than he was removed in age difference from his previous audiences , right? In other words, he is closer in age to you even when you were younger than he is to today's young people. Really, so often people think they understand the kids. I dont have any and I dont understand them fully. My attorney who grew up in the 60s kept telling me how her nieces and nephews had no causes etc. etc. all complaints about GEn X. She could say that to me (33 now), because I grew up elsewhere I guess. However, i kept showing her actual facts about saving rates, etc. etc. that refuted most of what she said. Of course only in America do we need to categorise everyone.
      Another point...
      things I liked at a younger age are sometimes as appealing today but ONLY because i somehow "recall" the pleasure I got from my first viewing of it. Having grown up in a country with very little good entertainment, i took delight in some absolute crap. But I wont even be able to watch it today. On the other hand, some other things which I sort of liked, I may like as much today though I WOULD NOT HAVE LIKED IT as much if i saw it today for the FIRST TIME. When you describe how you liked SW original episodes, I suspect that at least some of the liking may be because of how you saw the movie at the age you were then. If you saw it for the first time today.... I cannot say for sure that you would not have liked it so so much but I am not sure . You would certainly have liked it.
      Frankly, this is just a pet idea of mine about how people enjoy things. Am interested in your feedback. I have found movies to be the best way to bring this sense of perception out.
      Cheers. No offense intended.
      - Re: You know, its kind of fun...... Joe S 17:29:09 04/20/00 (6)
        
        In Reply to: Re: You know, its kind of fun...... posted by Ran on April 20, 2000 at 10:04:57:
        
        Absolutely no offense taken :-)
        I agree, I dont really belive it is todays audience he is catering to. I think its more a shift in focus to kids and it deos seem he hits that mark quite well. My friends with children who went to Phantom Menace have told me of their offspring's rapt attention and post movie interest. Its just that his original pictures had the same effect on adults - but judging by my response and many of my friends that doesnt seem to be true any longer.
        But I know what you mean about seperating things from their original context. Things we saw earlier in life often do become entwined with our long term tastes in interesting ways. There are movies I recall from my childhood that hit me at a level far beyond their value and content that make them special to this day (the original Bond flicks with Sean Connery for example). And while I'm sure I'd still like them if I was seeing them for the first time now, I'm equally sure they wouldnt resonate in quite the way they do when I see them again in the context of my past experience...
        Cheers!
        joe
        
        funny you should say that ...... Mart 00:39:14 04/21/00 (5)
        
        In Reply to: Re: You know, its kind of fun...... posted by Joe S on April 20, 2000 at 17:29:09:
        
        The thing that absolutely floored me at the time was the openning scene in Star Wars. The perspective was so tremendous as the Empire ship just kept growing ... WOW!!! But, to see it now I only get a residual twang from remembering the original WOW.
        As far as a kiggy show is concerned, di we forget this is a Sci-Fi fairy tail with evil kings & wizards & an underdog hero?
        My problem isn't with the doo-tads & other gimmicks or whatever that prejudicial BS was about, but where was the drama? Even during the pod racing scene (a computer generated Ben Hur chariot recreation), there was no anticipation, no fear, no concern, nada. I kept saying "yeah, they spent a great deal of money here ... next". I guess it would've helped if I gave a damn about the characters. Nobody bothered to develope them into anything beyond the thickness of the celluloid.
        What was he thinking? Doesn't he have a set of people who're gifted enough not to be brown-nosers? Somebody should've screamed something!!!
        
        Re: funny you should say that ...... Joe S 08:45:12 04/21/00 (4)
        
        In Reply to: funny you should say that ...... posted by Mart on April 21, 2000 at 00:39:14:
        
        I think all of that comes from catering to a less critical audience of children. Yes indeed no drama, and the acting of the lead was so wooden and unconvincing as to be offensive - but those are things young kids apparently arent too critical of.
        Yes the original SW flicks required a suspension of disbelief and were hardly profound - but they did have drama, action, beleivable characters and acceptable acting. Of course a big element was the pace which kept things moving along in a convincing manner so that you didnt think to hard as it all flew by.
        But the latest movie was such a directorial cop out. You're right about the lack of caharcters, but even more irritaing at times was the script which simply failed to make its points in any credible way. A character says he senses menace in the young acting challenged munchkin and yet nothing in the kids behavior or in the flow of the movie itself illustrates it? Thats just lazy directing and insulting to the audience.
        The problem is that the fuzzies and toys are the drivers. He's realized he can make crap movies which target kids with underdevloped characters and lame scripts and make his money in the toy store rather than simply at the box office. Hence, instead of focusing on crafting the best movie he can he makes the best child targeted toy commercial instead.
        And unfortunately he's making a killing at it with all the promo ties ins, so I really doubt we'll ever see a legimate movie from Lucas again...
        This is the crux of my objection to the fuzzies and figures.
        joe
        
        symptom v. disease late 09:29:27 04/21/00 (3)
        
        In Reply to: Re: funny you should say that ...... posted by Joe S on April 21, 2000 at 08:45:12:
        
        hi,
        Lucas, is rich, no, i mean really rich. His accountants need training in relativistic physics just to describe roughly how rich he is. He is also a control freak, with a real problem of delegating.
        Can you say Peter Principle?
        
        So I guess that means... Joe S 15:30:06 04/21/00 (2)
        
        In Reply to: symptom v. disease posted by late on April 21, 2000 at 09:29:27:
        
        ...In space, no one can tell you you're wrong.
        joe
        
        or ... Mart 19:05:16 04/21/00 (1)
        
        In Reply to: So I guess that means... posted by Joe S on April 21, 2000 at 15:30:06:
        
        "nothing so vacuous as deep space"
        ...or, again, in his case, he's so dense ...
        "even enlightenment can't leave"
        
        Re: or ... Ran 11:22:39 04/22/00 (0)
        
        In Reply to: or ... posted by Mart on April 21, 2000 at 19:05:16:
        
        You said --
        "even enlightenment can't leave"
        Well said Sort of like a
        Black Hole huh?
- Reminds me of the hope I held out for ... Mart 15:25:10 04/19/00 (2)
  "Blade"
  
  ... but the movie had nothing to do with the book it was supposedly based upon.
  - Re: Reminds me of the hope I held out for ... Ran 06:02:15 04/20/00 (1)
    Hey Mart,
    If you have a moment and if it takes only a sentence or two, would you mind telling me how you post those pictures with your textual postings. Thanks and no probs if you dont feel like.
    Cheers
    - Re: Reminds me of the hope I held out for ... Mart 23:58:16 04/20/00 (0)
      1) go to http://www.cdnow.com
      2) look up film
      3) move mouse over picture
      4) right click to reveal menu
      5) select "Save Picture As ..."
      6) a window will appear will its name which is a set of numbers at this page
      7) hit [CRTL]+[C] simultaneously to copy this number into the buffer
      8) move mouse over board to the empty background
      9) right click to reveal menu
      10) select "View Source"
      11) a window will appear which is the HTML code responsible for the page
      12) select "Search" -> "Find" from its tool bar
      13) hit [CRTL]+[V] simultaneously to paste this number from buffer
      14) copy the line starting with "img src=http://" & ends with "jpg"
      15) add " <" before the string & "> " after both without any spaces
      16) hit preview
      if it doesn't work post anyway & tell me your problems & I'll see if I can diagnose your problem

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