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In Reply to: If you liked that movie posted by Doug Flynn on May 08, 2004 at 02:20:21:
I just order it, even I saw the name...Gibson...Sometimes you have to be brave..And he was young, back then...Thanks for the recommendation!PS: Much fun with M & C !
Follow Ups:
Overall I liked it. It steered clear of triteness and cliche, although it did borrow a few tricks from Saving Private Ryan (ughhhh!) that I found irritating. I liked the way it avoided the current Hollywood obsession with blood and guts.I also thought the plot was a bit weak, but that's what happens when a director also writes the script!
Cheers. Doug
I WAS a bit wound up, generally, with my last post - needed to edit it, and sent it by mistake when rushing out to do that Dad's taxi bit, for an impatient fils, 'kay! :-). Then I felt constrained to delete it after I had re-read it.First up I am an inveterate follower and devourer of books and novels of the Napoleonic era, particularly but not exclusively naval history AND the Peninsula campaign with reference to 'the Rifles' and 'the Lightbobs'. So,.... I had a lot of the background and knew both the stories here combined, so for me it was easier.
I really enjoyed the film, and find much of the commentary here and more widely reflective of deep ignorance. So there. I don't get to go to the movies much anyway, and this was a treat.
For Patrick particularly, go search under my handle at Central under Rifles. I actually served a few months at the Greenjackets depot!
I have been devouring naval novels, and naval and gun history, for a long time and got on to Patrick O'Brien quite late. I can probably bore you all to death about technological change and artillery in any context let alone Naval or 19c. Mil. History is ONE of my hobbies outside muisc and audio, along with cooking, literature, systems/ic thinking etc etc.
PO's works are IMO a substantial step-up in characterisation and revelation of people's lives and attitudes way back then from mnay others including famed 19c novellists, the ch'n is a lot more near to the bone than Austen for eg. I would put them in the top-end literature class, as good as Tim Winton's stuff.
[I think bernard Cornwell's stuff is also bettr thean many suppose, not just his Sharpe series. ]
I think M&C IS flawed, by putting two stories together at least, but I did find that I enjoyed it and have watched it since, our primitive HT on DVD.
I very much enjoyed the characterisation and the arguments, the character of Maturin is a complex and conflicted Irish Catholoc Spanish upbringing, naturalist and surgeon, probably a 'United Irishman' but a hater of Nappy. Natural and philosophy were once a phrase.
The dinners and the jokes did NOT strike me as weak.
Many naval officers were musical. And didn't ahve recordings.
Delivering a broadside at close range, as a surprise from within fog was a common tactic, and is easy, it is called firing at 'point blank'.
The French tended to aim a little higher, at rigging and masts (a disabled ship is an easy mark from then on) using chain shot, bar shot and langridge, as well as solid shot at the hull. BUT in their ship, point blank would have done the job aginst a smaller, lower and older English frigate.
The use of grape filled balls by the carronades when raking IS also accurate.
The American ship builders, really were experimenting with much bigger and more heavy frigates, leading to the ship of the 1812 war like 'Old Ironsides'.
This path was made possible (triggered?) by the tree called 'Live Oak', then very common through the littoral of Eastern USA, from about Maryland south. Huge heavy one-piece ribs growing to shape for you. But, why though?
Small navy, no chance of beating a fleet of LoB ships.
You got the straight-line following wind speed or more, of the Line of Battle ship, (sail area/wetted area). So, you could run from them, where ordinary frigates just could not. AND retained much of the handiness and twistiness of a frigate.
Crew size, esp. for boarding AND prize crews. Also helps with sail handling, for agility.
Very much heavier guns, and more of them.
Endurance.
Taken together it meant that these bigger frigates, some built for French privateers as here, were more able to dictate the terms of an enaggement, and piss off if neccesary.
I found the bloodiness and ferocity in M&C VERY truthful, and personally quite difficult for me, as an ex-grunt, to cope with. As I did with SPR!
It is for me the best film about this period / naval warfare that I have seen, along with, perhaps "Le Colonel Ch......" with Depardiuex and Ardant, and 'the Duellists', which I nearly forgot, ;-).
Despite Patrick's view that the French navy was as good as the RN, I disagree, the number of their privateers is sufficient indication of this.
The RN at the time was a far more effective force except perhaps around 1802 to 1803 when it was run down, by Britain's 'top people' aka slimebags.
I would acknowledge that there were indeed many very effective French ships and admirals, from '92 to '15. But, the quality of the French navy overall was far lower that it had been a decade or two earlier, when it was line-ball with the RN. And, it got worse in the period.
Further, Nappy never really GOT naval warfare, did he?!
The RN was actually not a bad place to serve, even for prime seamen, most sailors were volunteers despite the impressions we have about 'the press', and there weren't that many East Indiamen - the better alternative.
Despite death from wounds, the health of the RN was better than in the UK generally. A RN ship was actually quite a healthy place.
Oh and the swords, for anachronisms and accuracy? IIRC officer's swords were not an issue item in British service. Apart from some fairly general guidelines for middies dirks, (for officer's swords?), there may have been a lot of variation anyway. The RM's may have had reg'n as in the Army.
Many captains had two, a dress sword, this very possibly an elaborate 'presentation' item, and the one they carried in battle, many of both being family heirlooms.
And many officers preferred the Navy's cutlass, for h2h. Me?, I'd have carried a boarding pike, and 2 pistols.
Last of all, here's some quizz q'ns.
Why were muskettoons / blunderbusses made with a belled (horn) mouth?
Where does the name Carronade come from? AND, Who wrote one of the first anti-factory poems, after seeing a factory making them?
Warmest,
Timbo in Oz
The Skyptical Mensurer and Audio Scrounger
Peace
It's about character, friendship, the nature of authority, the price of command. I loved how these themes were developed through the treatment of Midshipman Blakeney's character: his RN rite of passage under the twin authority figures of those radically different friends, Aubrey & Maturin. Watch the extras, especially Weir's bit about adapting O'Brien's books. The watch the movie again.As Weir notes in the extras, much of the appeal of O'Brien's books is in the details and the characters. In that sense, Weir (and his co-writer John Collee) is very true to the source material.
Wier's style is heavily slanted to visual storytelling. He's not gonna underline the obvious or spell it out for you. he assumes you get the references and are paying attention (such as the name of the enemy ship). Gladiator At Sea it ain't.
Best film of its kind ever made IMO. I love Weir.
Hi HarmoniaThanks for your reply. It was very enlightening - I had no idea of the genesis of this movie. I don't have a DVD player so I had to suffer :-) through the VHS version which doesn't have the commentary you refer to.
I hope I didn't come across as an ignoramus by berating the movie for its paucity of plot - I did understand, and indeed appreciate, the subtler themes running through the movie. I was grateful it wasn't Gladiator At Sea.
It's funny that movies are like music (and any other art form for that matter) - they are much more enjoyable when one understands what the creator is trying to achieve. Thanks again. I really should get myself a DVD player so I can partake of those extras, shouldn't I? :-)
Cheers. Doug
Which plot? The lines between as I said are the thing to look and enjoy at, this is only partially " an action " film ( Hollywoodian ) The best comment have been written until now by Timbo above.
I am glad you enjoy it and I suppose this film may grow on you, as I feel it will on me.
It is a sympathetical film.
A Bientôt,Patrick
PS: Saving Private...., I saw only once and a long time what kind of // you made?
nt
.
nt
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