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In Reply to: The Bambi B Lifetime Annoyance Awards posted by Bambi B on May 20, 2004 at 00:06:26:
Bambi, if I may, I'd like to latch onto your excellent Awards post for a few grievences of my own:1. Non-American actors with fake American accents-playing the parts of Americans. Examples abound, but most notably:
Albert Finney and Ewan McGregor in the recent Big Fish (2 in one movie! and...both doing a "southern" accent! Decent film, tho).
Nicole Kidman in everything of late; ditto N.Watts.
I know that talent (and a big name at the box office) is required for modern day movie making, but did I miss a meeting...are there no American actors with talent/box office appeal for these parts? Kidman in the Civil War? C'mon. One exception works for me...Russell Crowe...for some reason, and it is probably A Dangerous Mind, doesn't bother me.
2. Waaaaay to old actors playing roles/characters younger than themselves. Worst offender: My beloved Clint Eastwood, who will be 73 this year, played the 45 year old Terry McCaleb in Blood Work recently; he also played a lothario of a journalist/reporter a few years ago in a forgetable film that I can't remember the name of...Clnt's character actually seduces his editor's (Denis Leary) much younger wife...Clint takes off his shirt in this one, and it ain't pretty. Stay with directing, Clint...or characters your own age.
3. Two of a kind with one name each: Roseanne and Madonna.
Oh, please, Great God of all things entertainment... don't let either of these creatures grace (?) the silver screen ever again...or the tv screen, for that matter. Ditto the getting-nastier-by-the-day Rosie O'Donnell.4. Somebody please shoot that irratating no-talent Andy Dick, making it impossible for him to appear in anything ever again.
5. Let the phenom of "reality television" die the slow painful death it deserves...my only fear is that the networks will come up with someting even more crass and disgusting. There is probably no chance of ever seeing new and well done television dramas in the future, but I hold out hope for more like The West Wing, Sopranos, and...eh, well, I'll have to think of some others.
You're right, Bambi, I feel better! thanks for the rant.
all the best,
Gary
Follow Ups:
Gary,Interesting point about accents- as a person from "out of town" myself, who is often questioned on my accent, it is a favourite subject of mine.
The thing is, anybody paying attention will be sensitive to their own language(s) and odd accents are noticeable. I have an American friend in Italy who speaks 5 languages and in her German I can somtimes hear tiny American inflections. But, it would take a native speaker to detect that in her French or Italian, the point being that the sensitivity to accents varies according to the listener's languages.
It is always difficult when actors play parts that use foreign accents. In the old Hollywood studio system days, there was a sort of tier arrangement of A, B, C, lists- Bette Davis and Jimmy Stewart would be A, then Robert Young or Ronald Reagan, then character actors and western sidekicks- that kind of thing. When a director was given a movie to do, the actors came from the appropriate tier and that was it, if the script was Arthurian England, Wallace Beery might have to be Sir Lancelot. Some actors would make some inflections, but often there was little attempt to really imitate the accent. There were dialogue coaches, but Bette Davis as Queen Elizabeth had only the inflection level and her handmaidens were more English sounding. In the '30's anyway, there was a common kind of affectation in which many actors had that gave them a slight English sound- and I think this was supposed to introduce "classiness". "Dinner at Eight" 1933 is packed with this effect- the Barrymore's, Dressler and etc. and then Beery and Burke were using kind of crude American accents to contrast and show them up as crass parvenu's. Depression era escapism I think to show these glamourous sourroundings and refined sounding people. Today, it seems a bit silly.
Today, there is much more emphasis on good accents to help the suspension of disbelief. Some actors have played many roles with quite good accents- like Meryl Streep, "Sophie's Choice", and others a bit less successful- Ryder in "Bram Stoker's Dracula".
As I am almost always noticing Americans who do or try to do English, I was interested in your comments about foreigners who try to do Americans. My American friends don't seems as sensitive to Americans doinf English, but in the converse situation it comes up more often. and this gives Americans a taste of the distracting nature of inconsistent accents. When there is a slip back to the native accent it shows and I for one start to kind of wait for the next little error- distracting.
Sometimes there are foreigners who do American speech well- or well enough not to distract and I think a good early example was V. Leigh as Scarlett in GWTW. Her "fiddle-dee-dee" was quite good. She wisely didn't go into a real Georgia drawl, and seeing the movie the first time as a teenager, I didn't notice or think about her as English. She would have had an excuse too as her father O'Hara had a medium Irish accent.
More recently, I think a good job was done by Helena Bonham-Carter in "Mighty Aphrodite". Because of this sensitivity, I really listened to her accent to try and catch her out, but she's good! There was even a little (uneccesary) backup to explain B-C's accent in which her mother is introduced at a party and she is very English. But, I thought B-C's American was one of the best I've heard in a long while. But, others are not so convincing and I think I've heard a variable American with Micheal Gambon a couple of times. Branagh is in that medium range too- or do you think his American is poor?
Say, Patrick, if you're here, as you are French in Germany and know English as well, what are your thoughts on foreigners doing your languages? Notez-vous particulierement cet effet?
Cheers,
Bambi B
Those of us who live in the New England states in the U.S., particularly those in the Boston area, are driven crazy by Hollywood's inability to get the local accent right. The only actors who can do it are those from here, like Ben Affleck and Matt Damon. The rest shouldn't even try.
rico,A friend who knew my interest in languages showed me a copy of "Yankee" magazine from 1938. There was a long article in that issue in which the writer laments that the advent of radio was quickly destroying the distinct New England accent- "It is now (1938) already impossible to distinguish the difference in someone from Danbury from a native of New Haven." Those cities are what, about 150 miles apart?
Anf of course, the slide into homogenity continues all over. A friend in England has for years been telling me how accents in England are becoming incereasingly homogenised and serious Americanisms were creeping in. He was quite angry that, "Now we (the English) call them KIDS!" And that is instead of saying "children". When living in Cambridge, England in the 70's, a boatbuilder native of the City told me could easily tell the difference between a native of Cambridge and someone from Madingley or Cherry Hinton, both of which are only 2 or 3 miles away. I wonder if that is true today?
The French have been especially protective of their language for a long while. For years I thought this was a case of egocentricity and hubris, but now I can feel the sensation of loss of community and identiity that happens when mass media and constant population movement is turning speech patterns into a dog's dinner. Certainly, the accents in differnt parts of France seem still distinct and Swiss or Canadian French is quite different sounding.
Modern life will just inevitably lead to these neutralised accents: As I was born in Libya of US naturalised Dutch and English parents, lived briefly in Oklahoma, schooled in England, studied a bit of French and German, and then 20+ years working in Los Angeles I suppose I'm throwing a really complicated spanner into the works on my own since I had a radio programme for 6 years. Nobody could say where I had come from from my voice! Perhaps only Henry Higgins could have sorted that one!
Interesting and a bit charming that there are still so many people that take pride - and notice- regional accents.
Thinking about it now, I didn't notice very strong attempts to create accents in "Mystic River" and that movie was comsidered so very strong in creating an authentic atmosphere. I would assume that the accent of that working class neighbourhood should have some special speech patterns. Did you see it and what is your opinion of Penn and Co. in that one?
And am I correct that you feel that Damon and Affleck carried off proper Bostonian in "Good Will Hunting?"
Cheers,
Bambi B
1. Danbury and New Haven are less than 50 miles apart.2. I very much enjoyed "Mystic River" (both book and movie) and
most of the actors wisely did not attempt the accent, except for
Kevin Bacon, whose attempt was noble but erratic.3. It's been a while since I saw "Good Will Hunting" so I can't say
for sure but I don't recall being bothered by them so perhaps
unconciously I accepted them.
Bambi,I agree, some non-American actors do a great job with the various American accents...and Ken Branugh did a nice job of "speaking American" in Dead Again, at least as far as I remember.
Good point on Vivian Leigh in GWTW...considering the time this was made, she is credible as a Southern Belle Femme Fatale. I still find it interesting that with "the search for Scarlet" that took place, auditioning so many actresses, they pick a Brit who must learn to speak in a way that is so unnatural to her. I suppose history proves my argument baseless...I can't imagine anyone else as Scarlet at this point. I believe it was Paulette Goddard who was the leading contender after Vivien...GWTW would have suffered (imo) with this change.
I guess my major complaint is that with something like 10,000 SAG members continually out of work, the same "top twenty" actors are continually cast in the big movies, regardless of suitability...Julia Roberts and Nicole Kidman being the prime examples. Which brings me back to the film Big Fish...the American director (Tim Burton) cast two British actors (Albert Finney and Ewan McGregor) to portray the younger and old versions of a gentlemen from the American South...yea, much as I love Finney, I found this more than a bit distracting.
Ah, I'm tilting at windmills here, I'm sure this practice will continue and probably increase in frequency in the future, regardless of how I feel.
Aain, great post/Awards list!
All the best,
Gary
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