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In Reply to: Re: nope, Part 2 posted by Victor Khomenko on April 24, 2000 at 19:12:17:
yes Victor,
Stalin's butchery is beyond comprehension. But... we are
supposedly a country of law. Our treaty agreements, and our laws,
are pretty clear on this. If we do not respect our own laws, and traditions, we will become monsters as well. Occasionally there are no good answers. He is the Dad, his wife and family are in Cuba. So he will go home.
***yes Victor,
Stalin's butchery is beyond comprehension.Is it? I don't think so. Once you comprehand the nature of Communism, the rest follows without much effort. Communism is not about happy children drinking free milk in the kindergarten, it is about the Gulag and untold millions shot in the back of their heads without trial. It is about people being murdered for telling silly joke, for not displaying enough enthusiasm.
That's what communists do.
***But... we are
supposedly a country of law. Our treaty agreements, and our laws,
are pretty clear on this.You are painting yourself into tight corner. The *court* had made decision that the boy had right to represent himself and ask for asylum. Scumbags didn't like it, they simply took law in their hands. They simply showed us their middle finger.
Guess what, it is not over yet. There are still legal venues left and there are going to be hearings in Congress.
***If we do not respect our own laws, and traditions, we will become monsters as well.We have seen mostly gross disrespect for law lately. Blatant one. Arrogant one. Tell me how Clintons/Renos relate to what you call "traditions".
***Occasionally there are no good answers. He is the Dad, his wife and family are in Cuba. So he will go home.As the NKVD butchers used to say - son of Enemy of People is Enemy of People. That's why they routinely destroyed the whole families, small children and old ones.
Again, the law had stated that the boy was allowed to get the due process - application, hearing, lawyer representation. Reno/Clinton are denying him that right.
Court decision is LAW. Clintons maneuvres, Reno's actions, INS rules are all tactics.
if a 6 year-old has the right to ask for asylum, what else can follow? will 6 year-olds be able to divorce their parents? should 6-year-olds be tried as adults. i'm not sure a 6 year old is in the position to make a decision like that for him or herself. parental consent will mean nothing if we go down that road.
***if a 6 year-old has the right to ask for asylum, what else can follow? will 6 year-olds be able to divorce their parents? should 6-year-olds be tried as adults.Dave, that was not my decision, that was not your decision, that was the decision of US court. The judge heard the case and made his decision. That is as legal as it gets. The legal way of changing that decision is by presenting your case in court and winning the argument there. The two sides were heading for that trial, until Reno/Castro team simply vetoed it.
No one would simple accept the 6-year old position, but both sides woud have chance to present their arguments.
***i'm not sure a 6 year old is in the position to make a decision like that for him or herself. parental consent will mean nothing if we go down that road.Ironically, it has been Hillary who used to argue that children shoud have the same rights as their parents - including divorcing them.
What goes around...
In addition, we DO, as civilized people, take children from their parents when there is reason to believe that child's welfare could be at risk.
So my position is not to simply give the child the asylum, it is to give the lawyers opportunity to present the case and let the US court to decide.
I don't think doing things that way would jeopardize anyone. It would make Castro upset, however, and that is something Clinton is not ready to accept.
hi Victor,
this case falls under federal jurisdiction. My understanding is that a state lacks the authority to make a determination in such matters.
the INS doesn't have jurisdiction to kidnap a child (whose guardianship is still under question in the Judicial branch) under a writ to search for illegal weapons.
It will generally follow what it is told to do.It is now up to the court to uphold the law. Courts have done that before and it might do it this time too. It might not - there is about equal chance, I think.
Even if that boy is forced to go back, you can be sure that every year thousands will escape. Like thousands before escaped from other countries, like the hundreds so desperate they ran openly across the German border only to get shot by their "countrymen".
No matter how badly some will try to put human mask on Castro and his cohort, they will always show their ugly teeth.
Be sure, that given more time this administration would bring us whole new circle of "friends" - all the usual comrads like Sadat, Quadafy, etc.
Nah, ain't gonna happen...
...no one had questioned the right of that court to make the decision.It was not a court in Florida, BTW, it was, I believe, one in Georgia. I presume they knew what they were doing. As they had rendered their decision, I don't recall any challenges. I believe the decsion was just ignored.
I understand that that 11th Circuit Court of Appeal (I hope I got this right) is now considering the motion that keeping the child under the supervision of Cuban security personnel and with only Clinton's attorney visiting him violates that court's rulling. I believe that motion had been filed and will be rulled on some time soon.
If anyone has more accurate info on that, I would appreciate it.
Last night on WHYY Channel 12, at 7 PM EDT on The News Hour With Jim Lehrer, Janet Reno was interviewed by Jim Lehrer and answered every question brought up by this string, and more. Following the questions and answers section, the Republican Senator from Pennsylvania, Arlin Spector (you remember--the progenator of the "Single Bullet Theory" --that blasted through Kennedy's skull, paused in mid-air for a few seconds, turned, and wounded Connelly--shattering his bones, and ended up in pristine condition, lying on the gurney in the hospital -- Arlin Spector; the pubic-hair-on-the-coke-can Arlin Spector, who tore into Anita Hill's reluctant testamony to congress about her abusive boss, turning the victem into the villan as it ever was and is when a woman accuses a man of sexual misconduct, the axeman Arlin Spector, from the "Land of Giants", who never saw a dirty job he couldn't handle to advance the cause of partisan politics and keep the whole truth blurred or even hidden from an apathetic electorate, mister muddy waters himself) sputtered and spouted a weak and unconvincing rebuttal--his jowels hanging low--flashing me back to the Checkers speach of another infamous Republican from this country's shameful past.The district court ruling that the boy could speak for himself, and the three petitions written, signed and sent-in by the Miami relatives "but expressing the wishes of the child" were given due process, and the initial court ruling was overturned, and custody awarded to the father, and the jusridiction was clearly Federal and not State, and all the rights of everyone were protected under the full weight of the Rule of Law and the Constitution. Everything was legal, everything was proper. The boy is required by court order to stay in this country until this is resolved by due process. You can be certain that the poor boy will not be allowed to go back to Cuba with his father and siblings until the last appeal is exhausted--and even then I'd be surprised if some kind of deal is not worked-out that eveyone ends up a US citizen--should that be their heart's desire. Everyone will have an equal and fair chance to make their claim--even Castro, assuming he's still alive or in power when this is over.
But I know Trent Lott wants to go through another congressional investigation, and perhaps another impeachment hearing is in order, because God knows that's all his kind know how to do, since they can't do anyone any good, except to keep themselves on TV as the election draws nearer by causing constant suffering of the weak, like that poor child, the powerless, like his father, the "innocent" and easily maniplated, like Paula Jones, and yes like Linda Tripp,--the stupid and trecherous. That's how they make their living. Trent and Jesse and all their kind love this old divide and conquer tactic--it always works. And that pussy Gore is wishy-washing his way out of comitting to any point of view that might offend a voter or a source of campaign funds--aren't we surprised by that! And the press plays along, for truely, if anyone is completely lacking in morals, character, a code of ethics, and a sense of human decency, it is the Fourth Estate, accountable to no-one--oh, except for those newspapers and television stations that are wholy-owned subsidiaries of Phillip Morris, or any number of the Fortune 500. You can't trust anyone.
Now I don't hold any ill feelings against those who hate the President, hate Janet Reno, hate anyone that Rush tells them to hate--because I know those people are pathetic, and deserving of our fogiveness and sympathy, but mostly because they don't vote, which is why Clinton is a two-term president, and survived impeachment, and why the only thing turned-up by the most intensive and expensive and longest-lasting personal investigation in the history of the world--an investigation that continues, at taxpayer expense, to this day--has discovered that men--any man--is, will be, can be, stupid about sex, again and again, and can't seem to help it, no matter who they are or who might find out about it--and when cornered will lie about it, again and again, because sex is a private matter between consenting adults, and that's the way it should stay, and the majority of voting citizens don't want the Republican party looking at their privates, no matter where they choose to share them or with whom. I think that's called Natural Selection--and it's been pretty effective at populating the Earth with humans, and pretty good at eliminating the "sexually self-controlled" from the gene pool. But Ken Starr, the patron saint of the tobacco industry, didn't know this, because back at Pepperdine they don't teach the Theory of Evolution, because the world is only about 5000 years old, and there wasn't time what with all the wire-tapping and good cop/ bad cop sweat-them-out-in-the-cooler classes and all, so he can be excused for his foolish waste of your time and money, this time, especially since he himself has admitted he should have quit long ago. Ken, you sick bastard, I forgive you, but in case you haven't noticed, your partisan "friends" have not, so watch your back--they are gonna "get" somebody-they're still mad as hell that they can't seem to get the Silent Majority to go along. For every foaming-mad complainer about the way the Justice department "handled" this case, there's hundreds that think the boy belongs with his father--months ago.
I'm glad you gave me the opportunity to vent, and agree with "late" that I too think that finally something good for this motherless son has happened, and we should leave partisan infighting out of it, and leave that family alone to solve their differences legally, away from the prying eyes of the world, and the political opportunists.
Good things will come of this. We strive to look for the Good in everyone, always. That is the way of Christ. That is a traditonal family value. More than any single thing, it is the laws of this county, fairly enforced and upheld, that has made America the dream of men both free and oppressed the world over. It is the law-givers, from Moses to the Founding Fathers, whose legacy is a vision of the right way to live, to whom we owe all we have and hope to have, and those who are tasked to enforce the law are deserving of every respect, courtesy, and support we are able to give. Janet Reno is following a tradition that passes back into the very dawn of human society. We owe her a great debt for taking on the monumental burden she carries, and for what she represents.
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Please no foul language!
MiKe
sorry, I was calmly answering his hatred paragraph by paragraph until I reached the point where he invoked our saviours name as an excuse to spew his malicous misinformation & I LOST IT!!!I erased my text & exposed his obvious problem in straight terms
i am looking for someone who can provide a dispassionate legal analysis of the situation. If you find something, please let me know.
The treaty obligations appear straightforward enough, as does the
tradition of placing a child in the custody of the parents as a matter of course. But this situation involves skirting both matters (on the side of the relatives); and on the side of the govt, whether their handling of the situation is proper. To be honest, what i am hearing is a lot of hot air; but i like to keep track of such things when i can.
***i am looking for someone who can provide a dispassionate legal analysis of the situation. If you find something, please let me know.
The treaty obligations appear straightforward enough, as does the
tradition of placing a child in the custody of the parents as a matter of course. But this situation involves skirting both matters (on the side of the relatives); and on the side of the govt, whether their handling of the situation is proper. To be honest, what i am hearing is a lot of hot air; but i like to keep track of such things when i can.You got the point here - there is a disagreement. Perhaps both sides are not acting properly.
That menas: COURT should decide. The safe house was the right step - they unite, stay together, the due process goes on, attorneys have access to their clients. In few weeks the decision is made - and end of story.
This was vetoed by Clinton/Castro team. Now we have executive decisions instead of court ones.
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