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In Reply to: Persona, subtitles and dubbing posted by Bambi B on June 28, 2004 at 20:22:23:
Your comments on subtitles and dubbing generates a new thought: why are actors no longer taught speech and dialects? Or rather, why are they taught speech and dialects so poorly today? Twenty or twenty-five years ago, you could not get out of a major acting school without a good grounding in speech formation and projection, both for film and stage, and at least a smattering of dialect formation.Today, we are asked to accept actors in roles that our ears tell us are all wrong for them!
We used to laugh over line deliveries like "Yondah lies da castle uf muh faddah"! Kevin Costner's "Robin Hood" is just the most stunningly obvious example of this.
Follow Ups:
Gee LP,It's interesting that there was a period - really up through the 50-60s in which the use of Americans for other nationalities was taken as read and accents were either minimal or not attempted. Mostly Americans were being everything else- even Asian (Charlie Chan) or playing foreigners of all kinds. This changed eventually and, for example, Streep in "Sophie's Choice" caused a new demand for accurate, realistic performances.
But, even though the makers- and the public became more sophisticated became simultaneously so profit driven and immensely expensive that producers would not fund something without at least one name brand US box office star. This made the use of inapproriate actors go full circle ot the early carefree era. Profit pressure on movies forced the Big Names into all kinds of roles: Ryder in "Dracula", Witherspoon in "Importance of Being Ernest", Depp in "Pirates" the and etc. Your example of Costner as Robin Hood is among the best of the stomach turners. But, today the standard is somewhat higher and with extensive coaching Witherspoon and Depp did reasonable accents- though Depp's varied considerably from rural Somerset to way downtown of Sloane Street.
And, there's an even more confused situation at work. If the foreigner is famous enough- he becomes American and there are Hopkins (Silence), Micheal Gambon, Thomapson, Bohnam-Carter (Mighty Apgrodite) and Tim Roth in American parts.
We can laugh over the this return to silliness of not using "real" foreigners, as it it is sometimes strikingly odd, but I see this as a sad lowering of standards for actors. There are enough good actors of every nationality that the banality of forced accents just shouldn't have to be.
Cheers,
Bambi B
Actually there was a time when they shot twice the same film with actors of the country they come from...
On foreign actors... yes, many are easily and naturally absorbed. Prochnow is one such example, Arnold was another - both successful and actually good.You might also recall that in the early eighties there was a small wave of Russian actors who made a few roles - notables like Baryshnikov, of course, but also some less known ones, that brought some zest to several films - Moscow on Hudson, 2010, etc.
That wave is long gone, unfortunately, as some of them were good.
And there are others, like Valeria Golino, with her incredibly unforgettable voice among her incredibly forgettable performances.
Bambi B,I enjoyed your post very much! The part about foreign actors becoming so successful that we think of them as "American" reminds me of perhaps the most famous example: Cary Grant. In her essay "The Man from Dream City", Pauline Kael recalls the conversation between Grant and the producer of the film version of "My Fair Lady". Seems the producer wanted Grant to play Higgins and Grant laughed, saying, "My dear sir, I talk like Eliza did in the beginning of the play!"
Grant did also not want to take the part away from Sexy Rexy...
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