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In Reply to: Re: Well its sure no... hmmmmm . . . posted by Bruce from DC on April 27, 2000 at 15:22:24:
Actually, the depth charge sequences are awesome. The acting is also quite good. I liked Harvey Keitel's character and Matthew McCouneghy was pretty decent too.Hey, I was entertained, which is a rare event at the theaters for me lately.
Go see it! It's good in a good theater.
Tranny
Actually it was the depth charge scenes which were among the least accurte sequences - literally 12 or 15 charges continuously in a 30 or 45 second period? And the ending was a bit fairy tale like but still, I'll grant you for long stretches of it you could still suspend disbelief and go along for the ride.joe
***Actually it was the depth charge scenes which were among the least accurte sequences - literally 12 or 15 charges continuously in a 30 or 45 second period?Haven't seen the movie, but that many charges doesn't strike me as too much. I believe that can be done even from just one destroyer. Were there more than one at the scene?
Its not posisible the way it was done in the movie - the destroyer would have literally had to drop 20 depth charges in about a 5 or 10 second period which is simply not possible with roll off racks (now thats exactly what a hedgehog would do but the Germans didnt have the hedgehog) - nor was it the rate they were rolling off the racks when the director cut to the surface to show them being dropped. Sort of like they multiplied on their way down.The depth charge runs went something like this - before reaching the sub: discrete explosion, discreted explosion - over sub: ratta tatta tatta tat 15 or 20 explosions, just beyound sub: discrete explosion, discrete explosion,... and all the while they are rolling off the fantail of the destroyer at the before and after rate.
And inside the sub? 4" pipes burtsting, seams buckling, dozens (hundreds?) of leaks and a skeleton crew of only 6 or 7 Americans manning a captured and unfamiliar German U Boat who couldnt possibly fix this amount of damage. But 2 minutes later before the next barrage came - no leaks, no problem. Oh yeah, did I tell you about the part yet where they dove 50 % beyond the sub's crush depth after sustaining all this damage? You get the idea.
And this from a single destroyer in which the sub was locked in a rather artificially contrived duel. I wont explain the contrivance as it would blow the story for those who havnt seen it. But let me put it this way Victor - knowing your taste in war movies and your response to Stalag 17 I suspect this one would make you blow a gasket.
And never mind wondering how a Geman capital ship could survive in the middle of the Atlantic by itself witout air cover to be there to attack the sub in the first place...
Oh well. Tora Tora Tora or Das Boot its not when it comes to historical accuracy. Instead what many refer to as a "pocorn" movie. Which is just fine if thats what you're in the mood for. Believe it or not I still enjoyed this movie at one level, its just that the gaps are fairly easy to spot and if such things disturb you this might not be you kind of movie.
joe
Yes, I see, that makes sense. I was refering to the previously mentined number of perhaps 12 in about 40 seconds. That is within the roll-off racks capability, as you say.BTW, what is hedgehog?
But speaking of completely unbelievable, yet real and documented, war situations, do you remember the name of German Stuka pilot who is credited with single-handedly destroying 300 or 500 Russian tanks with his plane specially equipped with an automatic cannon (was it the 37mm flak gun)? Yes, the "original" A10, if you will. It sounds like virtually ANY modern weapons idea was at some point invented by Germans... I wonder if they found any German military gear when they opened up the Egiptians tombs for the first time. A mummy with a Luger by its side?
The reason I mention him is that he is also credited with sinking a cruiser with just his cannon - the Soviet Marat, and also heavily damaging another one (don't recall the name).
...Erich Hartman who had over 350 aerial victories in just the last 3 years of the war on the Russian Front? Gads, these people were prolific killers.The hedgehog was, by the way, an insidious allied invention that really helped wipe out the U Boats (along with long range air patrol, escort carriers for the convoys and radar). Unlike depth charges it was a weapon system which fired off 15 or 20 contact charges, each much smaller than a depth charge, in a circular pattern. The problem with depth charges was the you had to get lucky and put one close to the sub to destroy it. The hedgehog improved the odds by putting a circular pattern of charges (a circle perhaps 100 - 200 fet in diameter as I recall) which simply sank until they hit something. This meant you could greatly improve the odds of actually hitting the sub. And the charges only exploded if they contacted something, otrherwise they simply sank to the bottom - so if an explosion occured you knew you had hit the sub. Successful U Boat sinkings increased dramitcally after its introduction...
joe
I went ahead and ordered a copy from Amazon.When I read about tremendous achievemnts of those in service of evil, I always have uneasy feelings. It is common to just see and admire the tremendous talent of those warriors.
On the other side of the coin is the fact that if most of those high achevers were not THAT talented, or if not alowed to achieve their true potential, many more of our boys would come home alive. So perhaps we should lament, and not admire, the fact that some of Hitler soldiers were so good.
There once was a discussion entitled: "Which German generals do you admire most". Mine and someone else's answers were: the dead ones. By not continuing their horrible deads due to their long overdue deaths, they contributed most to the humanity.
Mixed emotions abound when reading was accounts. I can't read the story about the German tank commander destroying 80 Soviet tanks without thinking of 240 Russian crew who had died perhaps defending their land. And when I learn about another success of Afghan fighters I know what it means to some families in Saratov or Novosibirsk. All this while knowing who's got the just fignt.
Is that just me?
...what was the name of the movie about two Napoleonic officers and their life-long feud?
Pick up a copy of Holy Smoke when it is available for rental or purchase(probably in a month or so).Here you will find the most radical performance of Keitels career, IMHO. No spoilers but it's Jane Campions latest film with Kate Winslet and Keitel.
Tranny
.
Think (?) it was "The Duelists".
A fascinating period in history, one of my favorites.
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