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In Reply to: Tarantino's films are no more violent than many others... posted by tinear on November 14, 2004 at 17:47:35:
When Tarantino accumulates a filmography as long, significant and diverse as Bunuel's, then we shall rightly consider him a great director.Obsession with cruelty and violence is definitely not Bunuel's trademark, but it is Tarantino's. And Orange may be a Kubrik's "classic", but it doesn't make it any more worthy from several perspectives, disregarding its obvious artistic merits for the moment.
The Pulp Fiction does seem to have much more in the artistic department than the Killers, but that is hardly something that supports your point - surely one can find as gross and unpleasant examples of anything.
You are trying to argue that black ain't black... and you are not getting much traction.
Follow Ups:
Or, to stay true to the genre, how many Welles films are of significant merit? Coppola (and...talk about violent!).
Tarantino has made one of the great heist movies (RD), one of the best (I'd say the very best) film noir double-cross capers (PF), an exquisitely complex and satisfying drug adventure (JB), and the absolute best martial arts epic. Not a bad résumé. Perhaps if you'd look at the fullness of the glass and stop concentrating on its empty piece?
The violence in his films is NEVER gratuitous...it always advances the story, defines a character, leads to a critical moment---except of course, in KB 1 & 2.
Now, you just don't care for him, fine. I don't particularly like Tarkovski, he doesn't possess any pacing: kind of like a guy who can't dance but squeezes some bored broad and lunges around the floor.
If I may poke my head into this discussion, I think Tarantino enjoys looking at crime and violence from a comically sadistic viewpoint. After the work he did with Robert Forster and Pam Grier in "Jackie Brown" I had thought he was ready to move on to other films about other subjects, but appparently he is not ready to let go of his weapons yet.I enjoyed "Kill Bill" and "Kill Bill Part 2", but only as live-action cartoons...not as serious explorations of film art. But then, they were not made for those kind of explorations.
Peckinpah and Kubrick also studied violence in film after film, but their methods definitely changed over the years... Peckinpah's work and viewpoint in "Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid" and "Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia" is different than his work in "The Wild Bunch" or "Ballad of Cable Hogue", just as that work is different from "Ride the High Country" or the early episodes of "The Rifleman". Kubrick's films are also explorations of violence, but what explorations! as it is possible to include "Lolita" and "2001: A Space Odyssey" and "Barry Lyndon" as "violent films" alongside "The Killers" or "A Clockwork Orange".
As much as I like Tarantino, I think he is regressing. Of course he is young yet and hopefully has many years and films left in him. But where is his "Ivan the Terrible Part I" or "Magnificent Ambersons"?
He is only hitting one note on the piano. It's a great note, don't get me wrong, but what about the others?
That is how I see it too. Althogh I consider the Fiction the high point on his career, and for some reason I never got moved by Jackie Brown.
Fiction was very " modern " let´s´wait if it passes the test time, which I am not so certain.
Victor, once again you demonstrate your arrogance. Saying you like or do not like something is expressing a view point. Saying that because you do not like something it is therefore not good, as a fact, is arrogant.You also again demonstrate your ability to change the statement made to suit your retort. I do not think that Tinear (and he can certainly correct me) was arguing that the violence was a good thing, or a bad thing. Merely that the current violence is more reflective of the world that we live in than the films made many years ago. With better technology and better education, we now know of Stalin's atrocities, Pol Pot, etc. Their violence makes that of todays film makers pale by comparison. Our parents and grandparents did not know of that violence, and therefore films did not depict it.
The problem with Tinear trying to define "black", is that you have taken it upon yourself to define the term, and define what is or is not "good", or "artistic." Your world does not includes grays, or any other colors for that matter. Shame.
Dontcha know, you can't say that? You are supposed to say you don't like my statement - as that expresses your view point.Once agiain you demonstrate your arrogance.
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