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In Reply to: Steve or anyone. Those anti-establishment films. Which are great? posted by edta on July 10, 2000 at 18:47:03:
>A post below mentioned Antonioni's "Zabriskie Point" as anti-establishment.
>Is it? I have not seen it.Much of it juxtaposes scenes of materialism with actions or dialogue which reject that materialism, and the overall impression it tries to convey is that this is (was?) "correct", so I'd agree that it is has a strong "anti-establishment" theme.
>More than that, could there be a genre of anti-establishment films?
>And how would you define it?Interesting question, but I see "anti-establishmentism" more as a theme which can be found across genres rather than as a genre itself, although some films concern themselves so strongly with this theme that they ignore all other concerns - hence the whole film becomes "anti-establishment". "The Strawberry Statement", "Zabriskie Point" and "Easy Rider" come to mind.
Not surprisingly all three are the product of a particular time and social experience. Come to think of it, so are "Dr Strangelove" & "Catch 22" and many others. Hmmm, is it just a phenomena of 1960s/1970s films I wonder?
Favourite one? I guess Roger Corman's "The Trip". It is a poor film in many respects but also has a compelling, naive honesty - everyone concerned seemed to really believe in the value of the (very anti-establishment) experience they were portraying. It was definitely a product of the counter-culture, and not an exploitation of it.
TG
Thanks. I remember reading something about "The Trip". I was in the Army in Germany at the time and missed it. I just looked up the "Strawberry Statement". Students taking over a college. Boring, according to Halliwell. Halliwell's been wrong a few times. Was the Strawberry Statement that bad?
No, it wasn't bad, but it took itself very seriously so it's not surprising that a staid publication like Halliwell reviews it as boring. Anyone with personal memories of those times would probably see it as a more or less accurate (but melodramatic) reflection of the attitudes of many 1960s college students.In general, Halliwell is my bible for films produced by the major Hollywood studios from the 1930s to 1950s. He had a good feel for the studio films of that golden era, however his coverage of silents is very sketchy, and after 1960 he just loses the plot altogether (except for big budget films). I don't think he ever liked or "got" modern films, especially independent productions, and that bias still continues.
What reveiwer would you suggest as an alternative for those later films?
My favourite critic/reviewer is David Stratten, but if you are not an Australian you will probably never have heard of him. He has been reviewing films on one of our public TV stations for years and gives regular college & adult education courses. Unfortunately I don't think he has ever compiled his reviews into a book. Barry Norman, formerly with the BBC as their resident critic, would probably be my second favourite reviewer (his "100 best movies" is a very good read). Danny Peary is a very good reviewer of all things weird & wonderful. I avoid most other critics.In terms of guides, I like the "Time Out Film Guide" published by Penguin Books as a companion to the Halliwell guide. It has a much more international scope then Halliwell, which is very Anglo-American. It also has a more cynical and sophisticated attitude, and assumes the reader will not be put off by a "difficult" film (instead of just rating it poorly or describing it as tedious which Halliwell does all too frequently). Between these two compact guides, mainstream movies around the world from the 20s to the current day are reasonably well covered.
My particular interests are silents, science-fiction, horror, film-noir and cult films. In these areas a specific reference text is needed. The Aurum Encyclopaedia of Science Fiction and Encyclopaedia of Horror are unsurpassed, but sadly about 10 years out of date now. Danny Peary's Cult Movie Guides (several titles) are the benchmark references in that genre, and there are several good works about film noir, but no one book that stands out.
In the topic area of this thread (anti-establishment), Danny Peary's "Cult Movies" could be a good place to start looking - I'm not at home at the moment so I can't check :^)
Hope that's of interest.
TG
It's Danny Peary, for sure and I'll be on the lookout for the others. Thanks. I'm with you on all but the silents and horror. I'll watch them occasionally, but not top interest.
Saw this film at my local drive-in as a teenager, directed by Roger
Corman, written by Jack Nicholson, main actors were Peter Fonda,
Bruce Dern and Dennis Hopper. Evidently "The Trip" was an exploration into the LSD experience which figured so prominently in
the 1960 revolutionary period. LSD, as promulgated by Timothy
Leary, was the way to overthrow oppressive social programming forced
on the individual from birth: "Tune in, turn on and drop out".
From what I can tell, the seeds of anti-establishmentarism as a cultural
movement began in the 1950s with movies as "The Wild One" starring
Marlon Brando and Lee Marvin; "Rebel Without A Cause" with James
Dean, Sal Mineo, Natalie Wood and Dennis Hopper; literature from
The Beats with Ferlingehitti, Burroughs, Kerouac and Ginsberg; rock
n' roll with Elvis Presley and others; and the racial rumblings of
oppressed blacks.
Peter Fonda in particular was involved in anti-establishment films of
the 60's: "The Wild Angels" -1966; "The Trip"-1967 and "Easy Rider"-
1969. - AH
Now I've got it! It's more than just a viewpoint. Maybe films sympathetic to an Anti establishment lifestyle could be a genre. Now you have me wanting find and watch some of these.By the way, are there any movies about beatniks? And wasn't there a movie about skinheads? -probably not sympathetic. Probably the same with the militia people.
I've never seen any movie that featured a beatnik as a main character
with a message or purpose; beatniks were too laid back, too cool, too hip to
get that involved emotionally. Kind of a lassez-faire attitude; not
something that would generate a lot of cinematic interest. Che
Gueverro was not a beatnik, Maynard G. Krebs was.
... for immersing yourself in the counter culture. Not all of these are specifically about those times, or set in them, but all have the "feeling" of the times in some way. There's sure to be heaps more - I'm just writing this off the top of my head (help me out here guys!). They aren't listed in any sort of order, but essential viewing (IMHO) are marked (***)Cheers
TGLittle Big Man
Woodstock (***)
Barbarella (***)
Blow Up (***)
8 1/2
Charly
The Andromeda Strain
Casino Royale
Head
Oh Lucky Man (***)
If
Fantastic Planet (animated feature)
Allegro Non Troppo
Zabriskie Point (***)
Obscrued by Clouds
Pink Floyd Live at Pompeii
Let It Be
Magical Mystery Tour
Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid
Lola Montez
El Topo (***)
The Holy Mountain (***)
Easy Rider (***)
The Magic Christian (***)
A Hard Days Night
MASH
The Trip (***)
Alice's Restaurant
Bonnie & Clyde
Dr Doolittle
Celine & Julie Go Boating (***)
The Magus
The Dunwich Horror
Dr Strangelove
Catch Us If You Can
The 7 Faces of Dr Lao
Harold & Maude
Fond memories indeed! Saw it sitting under an air conditioner, coming
down off a bad trip from magic mushrooms (the tranquilizing effects
of the Thorazine had already kicked in, neutralizing the nausea and
the internal head pressure that made me feel like my head was gonna
explode ala' "Scanners"!) One of Tony Randall's best performances,
believe he portrayed six or seven different characters; and of course,
the young and lovely Barbara Eden, always a pleasure to behold. Think
Harryhausen did the effects too. Read the book the film was based
on too, "The Circus of Dr. Lao" by Charles Finney, very good. - AH
Wow! Thanks! Now, I have another great list to put along side of my film noir list! Most of those are pretty old and hard to find, but these should be more easily available.I have seen almost half of these, but some are totally new. Celine and Julie Go Boating, Lola Montez, The Holy Mountain, Catch Us If You Can, If, and Allegro Non Troppo--I've never even heard of.
> Celine and Julie Go BoatingA very odd French film about two women and a "haunted" house. Quite long & dreamlike - some folks hate it. By the way, it has nothing to do with boating - the title is actually a pun in French, and loosly translated it means (colloquially) "Celine & Julie Suspend Disbelief" or "Celine & Julie Let Their Imaginations Run Away".
> Lola Montez
A sort-of historical biopic about a real character, a courtesan who carried on an affair with the King of Bavaria. The story is straightforward, but for a film made in the mid-50s this was quite surreal in presentation. Probably hard to find.
> If
If was Lindsay Anderson's first of a trilogy of films (followed by Oh Lucky Man & Britannia Hospital) which brutally satirised the establishment, particularly the British political & social caste systems. "If" is set in a boy's boarding school, which is used as a metaphor for repressive society. This film is the perfect antidote to "Goodbye Mr Chips" B^)
> The Holy Mountain
We are in the presence of a genuine inspired insane genius - Alexandro Jodorowsky. If you have seen "El Topo", this is in the same style (!) but even further over the top. A young man seeks enlightenment, and becomes the follower of an alchemist who enlists the aid of companions (who are magical familiars conjured from the planets) to help him on the journey. Drugs, blood, magic, and a cast of freaks & hippies. Utterly surreal and just about impenetrable if you don't know anything about alchemy or ritual magic. You'll love it or hate it.
> Catch Us If You Can
A John Boorman film from 1965. This was an attempt to cash in on "A Hard Day's Night" by making a film with the then popular Dave Clark 5. It worked better than you might think and came out as something like a cross between "A Hard Day's Night" and a Cliff Richard film. Some scenes really do present a convincing portrait of 1960s "swinging" England. This will be hard to get hold of.
> Allegro Non Troppo
A must-see film. This is the "cool" version of Walt Disney's "Fantasia". Made on a small budget in Italy in the mid-70s, it uses the same formula of animations with an orchestral backing - but whereas "Fantasia" is pompous and a bit precious, "Allegro Non Troppo" is funny, moving & very clever. Don't miss it.
Cheers
TG
Yes, I think I'd go along with that. Up to the mid 1950s, films which criticised society were really examining and condemning a particular facet of the prevailing culture, but not denigrating the culture as a whole. I'm thinking of "The Grapes of Wrath" as typical here - the background culture is portrayed as sound (indeed, longed-for), but elements of the culture (eg the authorities' reaction to the depression & its effects on the common man) are criticised.After the mid 50s, however, a more fundamental theme of disenchantment with society as a whole becomes common, and it's not surprising that this theme was exulted in many films produced during the high-point of the counter-culture movement & student protest in the 1960s & 70s.
Movies about beatniks? Hmmm. Can't think of any offhand (or was there an Elvis film with beatnik characters?). Probably most anything depicting beats would either be stereotype, exploitation or maybe the occasional jazz documentary. Anything not made as an independent production by the people themselves would probably have little credibility.
Interesting thread :^)
TG
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