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In Reply to: Superb entertainment but it fails the greatness test: posted by tinear on March 3, 2005 at 16:44:36:
Huh? You have difficulty divorcing the film from it's subject matter. Which is fine. But good or great films are not so based upon their subject matter, but rather how they are about the subject matter. Films, like art, are a reflection of many things. Ugly things. Beautiful things. Happy things, etc. Do you go to an art museum and rate paintings or photography based upon their content? Are photographs of poverty naturally worse than those of a Church? Is a painting of a murder (and they do exist) worse than that of a choir of angels?You love Tombstone? Doc Holliday. Was he someone whose exploits were worthy of being dramatized? Is ruthless killing in the old west any more savory than in mid-twentieth century America? Or is that a turd that was dressed up enough for you.
Mafia families are not historically pivotal? Did I read that right? Where to begin. An entire city, Las Vegas, which is enjoyed by millions of people, and is the fastest growing city in the United States, was built and developed by the Mafia. Prohibition was largely derailed because of the Mafia moving in after prohibition and supplying illegal liquor. An entire arm of the United States Attorney General's office is devoted to the Mafia. There is no secret that the United States government conspired with the Mafia in an attempt to kill Castro shortly after he took power in Cuba. I suspect that if I lived in New York City, and had first hand knowledge of the influence the Mafia wielded in their political history, I could name more. But your statement that the Mafia was not pivotal in this countries history is misleading at best. Certainly not as pivotal as the American Revolution. But very signficant nonetheless.
You fail to mention that many people have a fascination with the Mafia. Go to a bookstore. Shelves are lined with them. I am no expert, but I have read books by Fratiano and Valachi, and the events recorded in their books are far more graphic than those within the Godfather films.
At the very least, if you are going to criticize a film for it's content, at least do so consistently.
Follow Ups:
***You fail to mention that many people have a fascination with the Mafia.Well, I will have to give you that this is one strong argument.
I am not sure what you mean. People generally like to see things that interest them. I played cowboys and indians when I was a kid. I suspect that experience has fueled my love of westerns. I assume that people interested in space exploration like science fiction. But I do not presume to tell someone who loves space exploration that the science fiction movies that they enjoy are, to use a word you are intimately familiar with, "kaka", because the subject matter is not to my liking. Rather, I would rather watch the film, and form my own opinions based on the execution. I am not particularly interested in space exploration, but Apollo 13 absorbed me.My point was that there are people interested in the Mafia, and it's inner workings. Unless they start picking up some pea shooters and blasting away innocent folk, I do not think that interest has any more or less validity than, oh, say, someone's interest in a solder gun, capacitors, and tubes. Except the former makes for a better movie. The latter a more respectable profession.
If you review movies and form opinions about them based upon the fact that you do not find the subject matter interesting, then why watch the movie? Save yourself some time.
What sets the great movies which stand the test of time apart from the others is that they attract a huge audience beyond their subject matter, and do not rely upon their subject matter for their appeal. "'The Wizard of Oz' sucked because I hate good witches." "'High Noon' was terrible because, gasp, the lead carried a gun, and shot people."
Millions of people who have no interest in the Mafia consider the first two Godfather movies great. Which they are.
***If you review movies and form opinions about them based upon the fact that you do not find the subject matter interesting, then why watch the movie? Save yourself some time.I shall keep that my decision... with your permission.
Now, is there anything that if made into a movie you would refuse to watch?
A simple question. I am not going to burden you with my ideas of what I would refuse to watch (or what any reasonable man should refuse), just asking you... is there anything you would refuse to watch based on the subject matter?
If yes, then I really don't see why you are arguing. Different people have different sensitivities. I will watch many things my wife would not, but that is completely besides the point.
If you have no such threshold, however, then at least I will look differently at the mankind.
Is there anything I would refuse to watch? As opposed to try to avoid watching? Well, I suspect that if someone had a movie of adult having graphic sex with young girls or boys, I would refuse to watch. Or if someone had a movie of a live killing.But then, the subject matter would prevent from ever watching those films. On the other hand, if I, or anyone else watched a film, I must assume that the subject matter did NOT prevent me or them from watching. I certainly have watched films for which I did not agree with the subject matter, or it made me uncomfortable, particularly if the film was political. However, once I watched the film, I did not decide whether it was good or bad based upon whether I liked or enjoyed the subject matter.
I am not arguing about someone refusing to watch a movie because of the subject matter. But rather, someone watching a movie despite the subject matter, then making a conclusion as to it's merits based upon whether they enjoy the subject matter. There is a vast difference. Just as there is great art work, great music, and great photographs that depict unpleasant subjects, there are great films which do the same, The Godfather among them. When you go to an art museum, do you disqualify paintings and photographs as being great because of the subject? Then why do so with film?
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