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In Reply to: Re: The Discreet Charm of Getting Old posted by Dmitry on August 04, 2000 at 16:01:33:
***Old Bunuel is one of my all-time favorites. A few months ago I saw his Un Chien Andalou and Land Without Bread. Both fantastic.My goodness, Dmitry, these are from 1929 and 32 - I never looked at his works THAT old. Sounds like I missed a lot - you are saying they are great. Something to write down.
***I also saw Le Charme Discret de la Bourgeoisie in the replay theater a while ago. It was fun to see successful, if unsuspecting middle-class New Yorkers laughing at themselves:)I need to thank Clark for tonight's hint. As I was sitting in my office trying to figure out what to rent tonight, his post hit the fan. So I rented four Bunuels. It's been several years since I watched any of his films, so I am really looking forward.
We don't have replay theaters here. I remember about eighteen years ago Realto opened in Wilmington and we went there to see the Autumn Sonata. There were five or six people in a huge room full of misty smell of old seats and dirty carpet - they rented some abandoned theater. It stayed open for several weeks, I believe.
Lucky dog...
Follow Ups:
Land Without Bread is entirely fictitious, yet looks like an agitprop film. Fascinating and full of wit, if you have the capacity to detach yourself from the subject.
Un Chien Andalou is a must-see, if you want to know where life has taken Bunuel later on in his creativity. Truly, one of the greatest films ever. After watching it I figured out that Bunuel is the one filmmaker that influenced most of the famous "suprnatural" directors of today, of course if they have the balls(i.e. cojones) to admit it.
I will also go ahead and recommend L'Age D'Or, Robinson Crusoe(great cinematography) and El Angel Exterminador(a prequel of sorts to the Charme).
I hate saying this, but they don't make films like this anymore.
They make motion pictures now.
It was The Milky Way. Maybe I was too tired, but this super-symbolic one was too much for me. Yeah, sure, lots of fine moments, but they do not a good movie make, in my view. I haven't seen this one before and don't feel like I missed much.Although one critic says: "Though some moments may make almost anybody laugh, the movie is intended for highly educated audience, preferably familiar with the history of heresies and the Catholic Church - without this kind of knowledge much of film's charm will be missing."
Well, perhaps, and I am definitely not highly educated in these, but to me a movie should be able to touch someone at more than just intellectual level. Otherwise it becomes information transfer vehicle and not art.
When I look at a great paiting of an old Italian master, I may not know the particular mith behind it, but that doesn't stop me from seeing it as art. If the story gets in the way of senses, then it is the wrong brain hemisphere that is addressed.
Am I too wrong here?
I never saw the Milky Way, so can't comment on your impression of that one, but you propose an interesting gambit -
"Well, perhaps, and I am definitely not highly educated in these, but to me a movie should be able to touch someone at more than just intellectual level. Otherwise it becomes information transfer vehicle and not art.When I look at a great paiting of an old Italian master, I may not know the particular myth behind it, but that doesn't stop me from seeing it as art. If the story gets in the way of senses, then it is the wrong brain hemisphere that is addressed.Am I too wrong here?"
I don't think there are wrongs and rights here, Viktor.
Paraphrasing Ellington - "There are two kinds of movies, good and bad."
There's nothing wrong with an intellectual film(some Bergman and Tarkovsky aren't digestible by most people, even the ones who've heard/read Strindberg, Swedenborg, Soloviev or Pascal). There are 2 ways of going about this.1.You say that you aren't educated in the matters of Catolicism. Read a few good books and then perhaps see the same film in a different light. Same with those math problems; to an average Joe they are out of this world, to you they are pure enjoyment, because you know how to deal with them. The more educated you get in these matters, the more enjoyment you receive. No?
From here another problem arises - even if you dig those movies, math problems, constellations, chinese checkers, there will be few who will share your pleasure.:))2.Forget about it and enjoy Belle Du Jour(The older I get the more I tend to follow the second pathway).
P.S. If you are interested in heresies(other than the ones you have read on this board far too many a time), witchcraft and clandestine movements in the Western Europe of the dark to middle ages, I can dig out a couple of really cool books that, I assure you, you would really be hip to.
***I don't think there are wrongs and rights here, Viktor.
Paraphrasing Ellington - "There are two kinds of movies, good and bad."I think we may be talking a bit orthogonally here. I didn't say it was a bad movie, just that it did not resonate in me. For the reason that the subject is alien to me - that's all. It is unfortunate that it was more about subject than some general human emotions, aspirations, etc.
***There's nothing wrong with an intellectual film(some Bergman and Tarkovsky aren't digestible by most people, even the ones who've heard/read Strindberg, Swedenborg, Soloviev or Pascal). There are 2 ways of going about this.I would not call Bergman's of Tarkovsky's movies "intellectual", but perhaps we have different meanings in mind. Which particular films do you have in mind?
***1.You say that you aren't educated in the matters of Catolicism.
I would not say 'not educated", but certainly less than in some others.
***Read a few good books and then perhaps see the same film in a different light. Same with those math problems; to an average Joe they are out of this world, to you they are pure enjoyment, because you know how to deal with them. The more educated you get in these matters, the more enjoyment you receive. No?
Enjoyment from that movie, yes, perhaps. But I mosty do deep studies on subjects that interst me, not every subject. This one has some interest to me, but not overwhelming.
***From here another problem arises - even if you dig those movies, math problems, constellations, chinese checkers, there will be few who will share your pleasure.:))
That is more to the point now. That is how I see that movie.
***2.Forget about it and enjoy Belle Du Jour(The older I get the more I tend to follow the second pathway).
That is not a bad movie eiher, it's been years and I probably would enjoy it again. I shall rent it.
***P.S. If you are interested in heresies(other than the ones you have read on this board far too many a time), witchcraft and clandestine movements in the Western Europe of the dark to middle ages, I can dig out a couple of really cool books that, I assure you, you would really be hip to.
Perhaps in some future. I guess I have several subjects ahead of it, but I shall consider your offer. We have a pretty good library, plus a friend of mine has gone through this stuff verrrry deeply and moved on, so I suspect I could pick from his shelves too.
Regards
I'll take orthogonal over obtuse any time.
Why wouldn't you call Tarkovsky's and Bergman's films intellectual?Ask your friend if he read anything by Carlo Ginzburg, Natalie Zemon Davis and/or Norman Cohn. Judging by your praise of him, he must've.
"Pursuit of the Millenium" is a seminal book. "The Cheese and the worms" and Night Battles" are great too. Can't wait to read the "Europe's Inner Demons:The Demonization of Christians in Medieval Christendom" when it gets reprinted this Fall. Unfortunately these books go out-of-print faster than you can say Devil.:)
Might I also suggest "Virtual History: Alternatives and Counterfactuals" by Niall Ferguson? Fascinating read and fun. You'll like it for sure.
***I'll take orthogonal over obtuse any time.
Why wouldn't you call Tarkovsky's and Bergman's films intellectual?I meant it differently. The can be called intellectual because they do require certain level of development and education, true. But what I actualy meant was that some movies would require the direct knowledge of a particular subject, well in excess of good general knowledge. That subject can be narrow sometimes, too specific. Neither Bergman or Tarkovsky usually have that. Perhaps becase their usual subject is the human being - something we supposedly know something about. Or do we?
***Ask your friend if he read anything by Carlo Ginzburg, Natalie Zemon Davis and/or Norman Cohn. Judging by your praise of him, he must've.
"Pursuit of the Millenium" is a seminal book. "The Cheese and the worms" and Night Battles" are great too. Can't wait to read the "Europe's Inner Demons:The Demonization of Christians in Medieval Christendom" when it gets reprinted this Fall. Unfortunately these books go out-of-print faster than you can say Devil.:)
Might I also suggest "Virtual History: Alternatives and Counterfactuals" by Niall Ferguson? Fascinating read and fun. You'll like it for sure.I shall probably write these down in case I find some opeings in the future.
That friend of mine is not very deeply in occult science, going to conferences, etc.
Now I see what you meant. I agree, yet both T and B are primarily watched by the intellectuals(or wannabees), at least here in the States.*That subject can be narrow sometimes, too specific. Neither Bergman or Tarkovsky usually have that. Perhaps becase their usual subject is the human being - something we supposedly know something about. Or do we?*
Smart rethoric!"Pursuit of the millenium" - read it, if you got time. Opens up a lot of things, the roots of which we would never've suspected otherwise.
Unrelated, have you read Bogomolov's "In august of '44" aka "The moment of truth"?
***Now I see what you meant. I agree, yet both T and B are primarily watched by the intellectuals(or wannabees), at least here in the States.I always get uneasy feeling about the use of that wannabees title. I guess I will take a wannabee any day over a zhlob, over someone who only burps Bud in front of a football game.
From that perspective being a wannabee is whole lot better than many other things in life.
I presume wannabee is in your use someone who only goes there because it is the in thing to do, according to the New York Times. The true test would be what this person would do if no one else was watching.
*That subject can be narrow sometimes, too specific. Neither Bergman or Tarkovsky usually have that. Perhaps becase their usual subject is the human being - something we supposedly know something about. Or do we?*
***Smart rethoric!***"Pursuit of the millenium" - read it, if you got time. Opens up a lot of things, the roots of which we would never've suspected otherwise.
Writing down.
***Unrelated, have you read Bogomolov's "In august of '44" aka "The moment of truth"?
No. Tell me more about it. I need a lot of cathing up to do.
*I always get uneasy feeling about the use of that wannabees title. I guess I will take a wannabee any day over a zhlob, over someone who only burps Bud in front of a football game.*
Let's not go into extremes here. Why don't you come to NY and I'll take you to any given opera at the Met; then we'll see who's who. Like H.T. Thompson wrote- "Here goes one of God's own prototypes. Too weird to live, but too rare to die."
Too bad I read your post after I've come back from Brighton Beach today. Para cheburekov s pivom!
Otherwise I would've picked up the Bogomolov book for you. Anyway, I'll look for it to send you. I'm really surprised you never heard of it. It's not new, dates from the late sixties-early seventies. Bogomolov also wrote "Ivanovo Detstvo".
When did you come to the states, if I may ask?
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