Films/DVD Asylum

"To be greatest, you must be so over a period of years, in many films." - I respectfully differ.

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Audiophilander

(A)

In Reply to: Opinions should vary but one thing I wish to correct: I don't say posted by tinear on October 7, 2005 at 18:56:47:

Sometimes a single performance from an actor or single movie in the case of a Director can make the individual a legend. Yes, a body of work can be judged for depth and bredth, but in the final analysis it's the individual performance which will attain greatness. Orson Welles had a rather brief career as a Director, but Citizen Kane is regarded by many as the greatest achievement in film. If you haven't seen Renee Falconetti's performance in The Passion of Joan of Arc I'd recommend renting or buying the Criterion release of this gem. This single performance stands as perhaps the most convincing roles ever.
AuPh

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Of course I've seen Dreyer's masterpiece. But she never - tinear 05:31:19 10/09/05 (6)
repeated it or anything else similar.
The problem with Steiger is he is old school. You can see him acting. As has been pointed out, Brando was a Beethoven: nothing was the same after him. When he played a character, he wasn't one-sided. Notice how in many of his roles he could bring out the "softer" side of a violent man and not weaken it. That was because of his animal magnetism. No one else burned up the screen like that.
Also, no other leading man had the threatening presence of Brando, yet could, the next moment, be sensitive (sorry, that's the only way to describe it). Look at The Wild Ones, again.
You put Steiger way higher than he belongs. In the Heat of the Night, Pawnbroker... highly rated in their day and now all but relegated to obscurity (rightly so).
Most people, when you mention Steiger, unless they're film buffs, go "who?"
The greatest do not toil in obscurity, auph.
- "You put Steiger way higher than he belongs." - Not at all. - Audiophilander 10:15:32 10/09/05 (5)
  Just look at the range of performances during his long prestigious career:
  Actor - filmography
  (2000s) (1990s) (1980s) (1970s) (1960s) (1950s)
  1. Poolhall Junkies (2002) .... Nick
  2. The Hollywood Sign (2001) .... Floyd Benson
  ... aka Himmel von Hollywood, Der (Germany)
  3. A Month of Sundays (2001) .... Charley McCabe
  4. The Flying Dutchman (2001) .... Ben
  ... aka Frozen in Fear (USA: video title)
  5. Lightmaker (2001) .... King Osso
  6. The Last Producer (2000) .... Sheri Ganse
  ... aka The Final Hit (USA: video title)
  7. Animated Epics: Moby Dick (2000) (TV) .... Ahab
  8. End of Days (1999) .... Father Kovak
  9. The Hurricane (1999) .... Judge Sarokin
  10. "Chicken Soup for the Soul" (1999) TV Series
  11. Shiloh 2: Shiloh Season (1999) .... Doc Wallace
  12. Crazy in Alabama (1999) .... Judge Louis Mead
  13. Cypress Edge (1999) .... Woodrow McCammon
  14. Legacy (1998/I) .... Sadler
  15. Modern Vampires (1998) .... Dr. Frederick Van Helsing
  ... aka Revenant (UK: video title)
  16. Animals and the Tollkeeper (1998) .... Fontina
  17. Alexandria Hotel (1998)
  18. Body and Soul (1998) .... Johnny Ticotin
  19. The Snatching of Bookie Bob (1998) .... Bookie Bob
  20. Incognito (1997) .... Milton A. Donovan
  21. Livers Ain't Cheap (1997) .... Victor
  ... aka The Real Thing
  22. Truth or Consequences, N.M. (1997) .... Tony Vago
  23. The Kid (1997) .... Harry Sloan
  24. Mars Attacks! (1996) .... General Decker
  25. Shiloh (1996) .... Doc Wallace
  26. EZ Streets (1996) (TV) .... Quinn's father
  27. Carpool (1996) .... Mr. Hammerman
  28. Dalva (1996) (TV) .... John Wesley Northridge II
  29. Out There (1995) (TV) .... Col. Buck Gunner
  30. Columbo: Strange Bedfellows (1995) (TV) .... Vincenzo Fortelli
  ... aka Columbo: Une �trange association (France)
  31. In Pursuit of Honor (1995) (TV) .... Col. Owen Stuart
  32. Choices of the Heart: The Margaret Sanger Story (1995) (TV) .... Anthony Comstock
  33. OP Center (1995) (TV) .... Boroda
  ... aka Tom Clancy's 'OP Center'
  34. Tous les jours dimanche (1995) .... Benjamin
  ... aka Seven Sundays (USA)
  ... aka Tutti i giorni � domenica (Italy)
  35. Captain Nuke and the Bomber Boys (1995) .... The President
  ... aka Demolition Day
  36. Little Surprises (1995) (TV) .... Joe
  37. The Specialist (1994) .... Joe Leon
  ... aka Especialista, El (Peru)
  38. The Last Tattoo (1994) .... Gen. Frank Zane
  39. "Tales of the City" (1993) (mini) TV Series .... Bookstore Owner
  ... aka Armistead Maupin's Tales of the City
  40. K�lcs�nkapott id� (1993) .... Sepak
  ... aka Living on Borrowed Time (International: English title: informal title)
  41. The Neighbor (1993) .... Dr. Myron Hatch
  42. Sinatra (1992) (TV) .... Sam (Salvatore) 'Momo' Giancana
  43. Due vite, un destino (1992) (TV)
  ... aka The Final Contract (International: English title)
  44. Guilty as Charged (1991) .... Ben Kallin
  45. In the Line of Duty: Manhunt in the Dakotas (1991) (TV) .... Gordon Kahl
  ... aka In the Line of Duty: The Twilight Murders
  ... aka Midnight Murders
  46. The Ballad of the Sad Cafe (1991) .... Rev. Willin
  47. Men of Respect (1991) .... Charlie D'Amico
  48. Try This One for Size (1989)
  ... aka Sauf votre respect (France)
  49. Tennessee Nights (1989) .... Judge Prescott
  ... aka Black Water
  ... aka Tennessee Waltz (USA)
  50. Passion and Paradise (1989) (TV) .... Sir Harry Oakes
  51. January Man (1989) .... Mayor Eamon Flynn
  ... aka The January Man (USA: poster title)
  52. Djavolji raj (1989) .... Martin
  ... aka That Summer of White Roses
  53. American Gothic (1988) .... Pa
  ... aka Hide and Shriek
  54. Desperado: Avalanche at Devil's Ridge (1988) (TV) .... Silas Slaten
  55. The Kindred (1987) .... Dr. Phillip Lloyd
  56. Catch the Heat (1987) .... Jason Hannibal
  ... aka Feel the Heat
  ... aka Sentir la persecusi�n (Argentina)
  ... aka Sin escape (Argentina)
  57. Sword of Gideon (1986) (TV) .... Mordechai Samuels
  58. "Hollywood Wives" (1985) (mini) TV Series .... Oliver Easterne
  59. The Glory Boys (1984) (TV) .... Sokarev
  60. The Naked Face (1984) .... Lieutenant McGreary
  61. Cook & Peary: The Race to the Pole (1983) (TV) .... Robert E. Peary
  62. Zauberberg, Der (1982) .... Mynheer Peperkorn
  ... aka Montagne magique, La (France)
  ... aka The Magic Mountain
  63. The Chosen (1981) .... Reb Saunders
  64. Cattle Annie and Little Britches (1981) .... Tilghman
  65. Lion of the Desert (1981) .... Benito Mussolini
  ... aka Omar Mukhtar: Lion of the Desert
  66. The Lucky Star (1980) .... Colonel Gluck
  ... aka Belle �toile, La (Canada: French title)
  67. Klondike Fever (1980) .... Soapy Smith
  ... aka Jack London's Klondike Fever
  68. Love and Bullets (1979) .... Joe Bomposa
  69. The Amityville Horror (1979) .... Father Delaney
  70. Steiner - Das eiserne Kreuz, 2. Teil (1979) .... Gen. Webster
  ... aka Breakthrough (USA)
  ... aka Sergeant Steiner
  71. F.I.S.T (1978) .... Senator Andrew Madison
  72. Wolf Lake (1978) .... Charlie
  ... aka The Honor Guard
  73. "Jesus of Nazareth" (1977) (mini) TV Series .... Pontius Pilate
  ... aka Ges� di Nazareth (Italy)
  74. Portrait of a Hitman (1977) .... Max Andreotti
  ... aka Jim Buck
  ... aka The Last Contract
  75. W.C. Fields and Me (1976) .... W.C. Fields
  76. Hennessy (1975) .... Niall Hennessy
  77. Innocents aux mains sales, Les (1975) .... Louis Wormser
  ... aka Dirty Hands (USA)
  ... aka Innocenti dalle mani sporche, Gli (Italy)
  ... aka Innocents with Dirty Hands
  ... aka Unschuldigen mit den schmutzigen H�nden, Die (West Germany)
  78. Lucky Luciano (1974) .... Gene Giannini
  ... aka A proposito Lucky Luciano
  ... aka Re Lucky Luciano
  79. Mussolini: Ultimo atto (1974) .... Benito Mussolini
  ... aka Mussolini: The Last Four Days
  ... aka The Last Days of Mussolini
  ... aka The Last Four Days (USA)
  ... aka The Last Tyrant
  80. Eroi, Gli (1973) .... Guenther von Lutz, German baron
  ... aka Enfants de choeur, Les (France)
  ... aka H�roes millonarios, Los (Spain)
  ... aka H�ros, Les (France)
  ... aka The Heroes
  81. Lolly-Madonna XXX (1973) .... Laban Feather
  ... aka The Lolly-Madonna War (UK)
  82. Happy Birthday, Wanda June (1971) .... Harold Ryan
  ... aka Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.'s Happy Birthday, Wanda June (USA: complete title)
  83. Gi� la testa (1971) .... Juan Miranda
  ... aka A Fistful of Dynamite (UK) (USA: alternative title)
  ... aka C'era una volta la rivoluzione (Italy)
  ... aka Duck, You Sucker (USA)
  ... aka Once Upon a Time... the Revolution
  84. Waterloo (1970/I) .... Napoleon Bonaparte
  85. Three Into Two Won't Go (1969) .... Steve Howard
  86. The Illustrated Man (1969) .... Carl
  87. The Sergeant (1968) .... MSgt. Albert Callan
  88. No Way to Treat a Lady (1968) .... Christopher Gill
  89. Ragazza e il generale, La (1967) .... The General
  ... aka Fille et le g�n�ral, La (France)
  ... aka The Girl and the General (USA)
  90. In the Heat of the Night (1967) .... Police Chief Bill Gillespie
  91. Death of a Salesman (1966/I) (TV) .... Willy Loman
  ... aka Play of the Month: Death of a Salesman (UK: series title)
  92. Doctor Zhivago (1965) .... Victor Komarovsky
  93. The Loved One (1965) .... Mr. Joyboy
  94. E venne un uomo (1965) .... The Intermediary
  ... aka A Man Named John (UK)
  ... aka And There Came a Man
  95. The Pawnbroker (1964) .... Sol Nazerman
  96. The Movie Maker (1964) (TV)
  ... aka A Slow Fade to Black (USA)
  97. Indifferenti, Gli (1964) .... Leo
  ... aka Deux rivales, Les (France)
  ... aka Time of Indifference (USA)
  98. Mani sulla citt�, Le (1963) .... Edoardo Nottola
  ... aka Hands Over the City
  ... aka Main basse sur la ville (France)
  99. The Longest Day (1962) .... Destroyer commander
  100. Convicts 4 (1962) .... 'Tiptoes'
  ... aka Convicts 4 (USA)
  ... aka Reprieve
  101. 13 West Street (1962) .... Detective Sergeant Koleski
  102. The Mark (1961) .... Dr. Edmund McNally
  103. An einem Freitag um halb zw�lf (1961) .... Frank Morgan
  ... aka Mondo nella mia tasca, Il (Italy)
  ... aka On Friday at Eleven
  ... aka The World in My Pocket (USA)
  ... aka Vendredi 13 heures (France)
  104. Seven Thieves (1960) .... Paul Mason/John Edwards
  105. Al Capone (1959) .... Al Capone
  106. Cry Terror! (1958) .... Paul Hoplin
  107. Across the Bridge (1957) .... Carl Schaffner
  108. Run of the Arrow (1957) .... Pvt. O'Meara
  ... aka Hot Lead (USA: video title)
  109. The Unholy Wife (1957) .... Paul Hochen
  ... aka The Lady and the Prowler (USA)
  110. Back from Eternity (1956) .... Vasquel
  111. The Harder They Fall (1956) .... Nick Benko
  112. Jubal (1956) .... Pinky, Horgan Rider
  113. The Court-Martial of Billy Mitchell (1955) .... Maj. Allan Gullion
  ... aka One Man Mutiny (UK)
  114. The Big Knife (1955) .... Stanley Shriner Hoff
  115. Oklahoma! (1955) .... Jud Fry
  116. On the Waterfront (1954) .... Charley 'the Gent' Malloy
  117. Marty (1953) (TV) .... Marty Pilletti
  118. Teresa (1951) .... Frank
  
  Brando couldn't begin to touch this body of work, and so many of Steiger's roles are memorable, even haunting! For instnce:
  Charley "the Gent" Malloy in On the Waterfront
  The sadistic Pinky in Jubal
  Al Capone in the s/t movie
  Sol Nazerman in The Pawnbroker (I differ with you strongly about his role here)
  Mr. Joyboy in The Loved One (definitely not PC, but cleverly done)
  Victor in Dr. Zhivago (hmmm, ...naw let's not go there! ;^D)
  Police Chief Bill Gillespie as the racist southern cop in In The Heat of the Night
  Carl as the brooding tatooed man in Ray Bradbury's The Illustrated Man
  and so on...
  Look at the depth and variety of roles interpreting famous figures:
  Napoleon Bonaparte
  Mussolini
  W. C. Fields
  Pontius Pilate
  Robert E. Perry
  I just can't see Brando in half of these roles; here's Brando's filmography:
  Actor - filmography
  (In Production) (2000s) (1990s) (1980s) (1970s) (1960s) (1950s)
  1. Big Bug Man (2006) (filming) (voice) .... Mrs. Sour
  2. The Godfather: The Game (2006) (VG) (voice) .... Don Corleone
  3. The Score (2001) .... Max
  ... aka The Score (Germany)
  4. Free Money (1998) .... The Swede
  5. The Brave (1997) .... McCarthy
  6. The Island of Dr. Moreau (1996) .... Dr. Moreau
  7. Don Juan DeMarco (1995) .... Dr. Jack Mickler
  8. Christopher Columbus: The Discovery (1992) .... Tomas de Torquemada
  ... aka Crist�bal Col�n: el descubrimiento (Spain)
  9. The Godfather Trilogy: 1901-1980 (1992) (V) .... Don Vito Corleone
  ... aka The Godfather Saga (USA)
  ... aka The Godfather Trilogy
  10. The Freshman (1990) .... Carmine Sabatini, aka Jimmy The Toucan
  11. A Dry White Season (1989) .... Ian McKenzie
  12. The Formula (1980) .... Adam Steiffel, Chairman Titan Oil
  ... aka Formel, Die (West Germany)
  13. Apocalypse Now (1979) .... Colonel Walter E. Kurtz
  ... aka Apocalypse Now Redux (International: English title: longer version)
  14. "Roots: The Next Generations" (1979) (mini) TV Series .... George Lincoln Rockwell
  15. Superman (1978) .... Jor-El
  ... aka Superman: The Movie
  16. The Missouri Breaks (1976) .... Robert E. Lee Clayton
  17. Ultimo tango a Parigi (1972) .... Paul
  ... aka Last Tango in Paris (UK) (USA)
  ... aka Dernier Tango � Paris, Le (France)
  18. The Godfather (1972) .... Don Vito Corleone
  ... aka Mario Puzo's The Godfather (USA: complete title)
  19. The Nightcomers (1972) .... Peter Quint
  20. Queimada (1969) .... Sir William Walker
  ... aka Burn! (USA)
  ... aka The Mercenary (Canada: English title)
  21. The Night of the Following Day (1968) .... Chauffeur aka Bud
  22. Candy (1968) .... Grindl
  ... aka Candy e il suo pazzo mondo (Italy)
  23. Reflections in a Golden Eye (1967) .... Maj. Weldon Penderton
  24. A Countess from Hong Kong (1967) .... Ogden Mears
  25. The Appaloosa (1966) .... Matt Fletcher
  ... aka Southwest to Sonora (UK)
  26. The Chase (1966) .... Sheriff Calder
  27. Morituri (1965) .... Robert Crain
  ... aka The Saboteur, Code Name Morituri (UK)
  28. Bedtime Story (1964) .... Freddy Benson
  29. The Ugly American (1963) .... Ambassador Harrison Carter MacWhite
  30. Mutiny on the Bounty (1962) .... 1st Lt. Fletcher Christian
  31. One-Eyed Jacks (1961) .... Rio
  32. The Fugitive Kind (1959) .... Valentine 'Snakeskin' Xavier
  33. The Young Lions (1958) .... Lt. Christian Diestl
  34. Sayonara (1957) .... Maj. Lloyd 'Ace' Gruver, USAF
  35. The Teahouse of the August Moon (1956) .... Sakini
  36. Guys and Dolls (1955) .... Sky Masterson
  37. Desir�e (1954) .... Napoleon Bonaparte
  38. On the Waterfront (1954) .... Terry Malloy
  39. The Wild One (1953) .... Johnny Strabler/Narrator
  ... aka Hot Blood (USA: first screenings title)
  40. Julius Caesar (1953) .... Marc Antony
  ... aka William Shakespeare's Julius Caesar
  41. Viva Zapata! (1952) .... Emiliano Zapata
  42. A Streetcar Named Desire (1951) .... Stanley Kowalski
  43. The Men (1950) .... Ken
  ... aka Battle Stripe (USA: reissue title)
  I'll give him diversity and even some very memorable roles but I still think that Steiger has the edge.
  He was a so-so Marc Antony albeit a very good Emiliano Zapata. He was an okay Napoleon Bonaparte, but a painful singer with only adequate comic timing in Guys and Dolls. He was good as Rio in One Eyed Jacks but the weakest of the Fletcher Christians in the three best known versions of Mutiny On the Bounty. He was GREAT as Don Vito Corleone in The Godfather and a terrible Jor El in Superman (going through the motions to collect a paycheck). Brando was effective as Col. Walter E. Kurtz in Apocolypse Now, but out of his depth as Tomas de Torquemada in Christopher Columbus: The Discovery.
  I'm hoping that you'll at least acknowledge my point here, even if you disagree with my assessments.
  Cheers,
  AuPh
  - Steiger was a character actor who acted in 95% crap movies: how many - tinear 13:21:57 10/10/05 (1)
    of his roles were in top 1000 films? He goes toe to toe with Brando and you ask 100 film fans who played his character and they'd go... "Ok, I give?" It's a great trivia question.
    Brando was a leading actor. You can't compare the two, for Chrissakes.
    One Brando performance, let's say "Apocalypse Now," was worth the entire opus of Steiger. You're comparing the second violinist of a major orchestra to a Heifetz.
    Just look at their two interpretations of Napoleon. One is boring with no surprises and then there's the mercurial, many-sided Brando's.
    Anyhow, thanks for being my foil (har har).
    - Steiger was both a lead and a character actor. - Audiophilander 10:33:57 10/11/05 (0)
      I disagree with you adamantly about the 95% crap assessment, unless you mean that 95% of everything is crap, in which case I could point to 95% of Brando's output as well. As I said before, there are some of Brando's roles which stand out and I do like those, but there are at least as many if not twice as many of Rod Steiger's performances which I find riveting.
      BTW, I couldn't care less about trivia questions, but keep in mind that Brando went out of his way to remain controversial most of his career and that will maintain his legendary status if nothing else will; in my view his reputation is mixed, at best. If you need examples, I'll gladly provide them:
      *Here is a man who refused to take Direction from Frank Oz because he had worked with muppets earlier in his career insultingly refering to him as "Miss Piggy" on the set and trying to have him removed purely based on his own ego; eventually direction had to be handled through an intermediary, his embarrassed co-star.
      *His South Sea's debauchery during the filming of Mutiny on the Bounty was scandalous and his difficult behavior during the filming of Apocalypse Now has been well recorded. Directors shooting on location apparently just couldn't take this guy anywhere! ;^)
      *His outrageous priced cameos for telephoned in performances are as legendary as his greatest roles, like his walk on performance as Jor El in Superman, where he was reportedly paid over $1,000,000 to just stand there and look patronly!
      The list goes on and on. In my book Brando will always be a mixed bag, certainly more of a male star with a Diva's attitude than a talented actor.
      AuPh
  - I'd trade you one Rod Steiger for a dozen Brando's - grinagog 20:13:20 10/09/05 (2)
    Steiger was never short of roles and played every one of them to perfection
    Even his bad films ( eg The Sergeant ) are still way better than most
    Brandos momentum was fueled by his early films where he was "cute", and as such a box-office draw, something that Steiger never had going for him
    Rod Steiger was an actors actor, he maintained his craft his entire career without ever becoming irrelevant, or becoming a parody of himself (or a fat slob like you-know-who)
    Grins
    - See Steiger In "Gothic" -1986 - AudioHead 15:10:43 10/10/05 (1)
      ~AH
      - "American Gothic" that is. nt - AudioHead 15:34:25 10/10/05 (0)
        
        In Reply to: See Steiger In "Gothic" -1986 posted by AudioHead on October 1, 2005 at 15:10:43:
        
        ~AH

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