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In Reply to: All Slavs interchangeable? posted by Victor Khomenko on December 9, 2005 at 16:04:22:
I would say that different "ethnic groups" are interchangeable if and only iff one knows nothing about them. The more one knows, the less likely one is to confuse the two, on looks, mannerisms, etc. For many Americans, all Asians are alike--there was once even a TV soap opera that had "Asians" that spoke "Asian"--even though there is no such thing.Zhang Ziyi, though absolutely beautiful, is not Japanese; this might work except that the film is about Geishas, something that is fundamentally Japanese in essence.
Follow Ups:
...that the Geisha is a uniquely Japanese cultural development and that in this case more than others I believe it important to have found a Japanese actress to embody the role.My problem with this comes from having some sense of the richness of the Japanese theatrical and cinematic traditions. Some of the world's great work in both media (acknowledging the great variety of forms and styles) comes from Japan. It's just so hard to believe suitable Japanese actors could not be found. Marshall claims that these were the "best" people for the roles according to some craft-related measurement, but I remain quite sceptical.
Also, when I watched the trailer I thought it was overdone in ways that appear confirmed by the numerous negative reviews I've found.
eb
You seem to be speaking in nothing but generalities. I asked you a specific question - is the actress clearly non-Japenese to the Asian viewers? You did not provide an answer.I strongly disagree with your first sentence. I am quite familiar with one such group, and as I said, there is plenty of overlap. Even such distinct groups as Jews, for example, can be confused for others.
So let me ask you again - I understand she is not Japanese... is she OBVIOUSLY non-Japanese to an Asian viewer?
I, of course, don't know if you are or aren't an Asian person... so I am asking a question, not making a statement.
I do agree there are silly stereotypes - like those Russians, with their fur hats that apparently grow attached to their heads.
I would say, Yes, she is obviously not japanese to the asian viewer. Crouching Tiger was not a success in mainland china (it was laughed at, in fact) because it had Taiwanese actors attempting to play what were essentially mainland characters...
I meant "Hong Kong" actors, not Taiwanese...
But I strongly disagree with that notion... when Omar Sharif played Dr. Zhivago the failure (or lack thereof) of the film had NOTHING to do with the fact the actor was obviously not a Russian type.
...and it is clear that these are Chinese actors speaking English; pronunciation, intonation, mannerisms.....none of it Japanese.....most american audiences won't notice this, but it is rather disconcerting if you know Japan and Japanese...they are just out of place in this context.
You can say opera is more symbolic than movies, but in reality this is not so - all performing art has this, and we expect the actor's talent to shine through the layer of superficial details.I intentionally mentioned the Rose. In the case of Geisha you are familiar with the details, and you are stuck on them. We all are far less aware of the subtleties of the 14th century life, so pretty much everything goes - including actor's impecably groomed beard.
Much has been written on whether a black actor could convincingly play Hamlet. I don't see why not.
...in what we are willing to accept. And, you're right--familiarity has a lot to do with it. A black actor playing Hamlet woudn't bother me, but part of that might be that Hamlet tends to transcend the time for which it was written. It doesn't really matter that Hamlet was a Dane in the grand scheme of things.Americans are notriously naive about other cultures and ethnic groups, and "Memoirs of a Geisha" is just another in a long line of examples regarding Asia.
I would venture to guess that this movie will not do well in Japan (because of the Chinese actresses--not their fault, mind you), nor will it do well in China--the problems between these two countries run deep and to this day. It's only real chance is in the US....
But that may be based in the dislikes the two peoples still to large degree have towards each other more than the actress' nationality.Shame... really...
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