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208.58.2.83
"Another very real dark cloud hanging over the success of either high-def DVD format is the sad fact that most of the early adopters of HD equipment have been pushed out of the first high-def DVD market by copyright measures that can (at the option of the studio) stop the player from sending full HD quality to the display on component cables."
- http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/2006/02/interview_-_mark_knox_toshiba_on_hd_dvd.php (Open in New Window)
Follow Ups:
Mark Knox: I think it is an advantage. How significant will depend on the answers to some of the open questions about our competitors. If PS 3 really does ship in the Spring and can play Blu-ray movies our market advantage is less than if PS3 ships without a commitment to play Blu-ray movies. It would be a greater advantage for us if f PS3 doesn't ship until the fall.Wishful thinking with the understatement of the decade underlined. I feel the upcoming "format war" is already over due to Sony using blu-ray with their PS3. With the PS3 release, you're going to have a user base installed overnight for blu-ray. Millions and millions of blu-ray capable players in the hands of 10 to 35 year olds (THE target market) in a matter of weeks. The only way for Sony to mess up this opportunity is to have virtually no movies on blu-ray for this segment to purchase around the time of release.
Xbox360 blew it by releasing without HDDVD capability. That was the only opportunity the HDDVD conglomerate had at getting a solid foothold in the market. The upcoming release of the band-aid external HDDVD drive won't reclaim that opportunity since consumers would have to spend even more money on something that already cost well above what a normal game system costs.
Mark Knox: The greatest damage is from the fact that we didn't reach one conclusion as we did with the DVD.
Someone please whisper "DIVX" in to this guys ear.
Tom §.
Unless Blu-Ray movies seem superior to regular DVDs when played back on the vast number of sets that don't have HDCP connections, who will want to pay a premium for them?The latest proprietary, locked-down format for movies is the Universal Media Disk (an ironic name if there ever was one, since it plays on nothing but Sony's Playstation Portable) and last I heard, it was losing momentum: In lieu of compelling games, PSP buyers figured they'd watch movies on it instead, and once that novelty wore off, PSP got relegated to the junk drawer next to Salad Shooter.
There are numerous rumors going around, but, by most accounts, the PS3 is not likely to be released this Spring (parts, inter-operability, cell chip, etc). At best, Sony will have a Fall release for the new console and, unfortunately, there's even the possibility of a Spring 2007 release. Until Sony makes an official announcement, no one really knows.What people need to keep in mind about Blu-Ray/HD-DVD is that all of the major studios will release product in the Blu-Ray format, but some studios do not plan to release any content in the HD-DVD format.
Many who have seen Toshiba's latest demos of HD-DVD vs DVD say that, while the HD-DVD image is wonderful, the DVD image was not of the same quality they get with their own DVD player. An apples to oranges comparison is acceptable in this case (duh), but comparing a fresh picked apple to a rotting orange is rather suspect. Sort of like comparing an FIM SACD or AIX DVD-A to a 1983 CD.
Joe,$900 to make one PS3.
Sony has to get that number down significantly, considering the MSRP is going to be around $300.
I wouldn't be surprised to see less than 2 million units made available in North America when it launches...if it launches.
The Pioneer Blu-ray unit is just amazing on an appropriate display.
Tosh
"I think this place is restricted Wang, so don't tell em you're Jewish"
yea, I heard the release of PS3 was delayed.
I'm not convinced either format will be anything more than a small niche market, like SACD and DVD-A. Right now, most TVs aren't equiped to take advantage of either format.
Jack
They can't control DVD anymore and the DVD cash bubble is losing its air. They need a new revenue stream and better copy protection. Then there's that whole interactive/special features BS that they say people want. And since the new players will play DVDs, you will see a gradual decline in DVD player and DVD software production (think VHS, CD, VCRs and CD players). Both formats also have hybrid capabilities (DVD and Blu-Ray or HD-DVD on the same disc), so this can be used to eliminate multiple inventories of the same movie.I'm obviously not part of their target audience: all I want is the movie encoded with lossless audio and 16+Mb/s 1920x1080p VC-1 or H.264 AP video. I'm even willing to pay retail to have this without so much as one director's commentary, actor's interview, slide show, game demo or interactive capability. I just want the best audio and video quality that the next gen format is capable of delivering. I'm not interested in the rest of the crap they want to cram on the disc (a contributing reason why DVD is not as good as it could be).
Yea, but I'm not convinced these formats wont be stillborn. I doubt the masses will care, even if they know about the new formats. Most think DVDs are hi-def. DVDs are still high profit, so we'll see if they drop their cash cow. Yea, they could go the hybrid route, but then, they could have done that with SACDs too.
While it would be nice to have some 720 or 1080 duscs, and I have a TV that would show them well, I'm going to wait untill things get sorted out before I jump in.
we'll see.
Jack
It won't be stillborn, but acceptance will depend on how it's presented. I believe the average consumer will appreciate the difference in video quality when HD is compared to DVD. However, it needs to be done correctly (ie; let a videophile do the company's marketing while the marketing department cleans the toilets).I think High Resolution audio hit a brick wall because it was marketed poorly, the average person doesn't appreciate it, doesn't want to spend money on quality audio and, the biggest reason, they prefer the portability feature of MP3 audio/players. Besides, they get a lot of it for free. The sense of vision translates better to them than the sense of sound. And their reasoning: why spend $20 on an SACD or DVD-A (which includes so much non-Pop music) when you can get a DVD for $14.99 at Wal-Mart?
x
There are ways around HDCP if you don't have an HDCP-compliant display. Below is a link to one such solution (there are several others) if you don't have a proper digital connection (HDMI or DVI-HDCP) and need an analog path. There are also digital solutions if your DVI connection is not HDCP-compliant.I don't see an HD-SDI solution for at least a year after the players launch. Hollywood has put too much pressure on the chip manufacturers to eliminate this possibility. But as the saying goes, never say never.
Not all studios will enable the analog "flag", so this may not be a problem for you if you need full analog resolution. So if you don't have an HDCP-compliant display, you only have a problem if your favorite studio is a scum-bucket like Warner Bros.
z
Below is a link to an AVS Forum page. The 3 links on that page will give you all the information you'll ever want -- or not want -- to know about Blu-Ray/HD-DVD. The first one (673 pages) is the longest and most information-packed thread on the net. There's plenty of participation by employees whose companies have a lot to gain -- and lose -- per the next gen format's outcome as well as by some very technologically knowledgeable members. There is some "noise", but considering the amount of information presented it's not that big of a deal.You'll have to pack a lunch and a dinner, but here's
So I will not be able to see the next LoTR in its full disgusting "glory" in my room! Like WOW! This is gross!It sure sounds like there should be two separate forums. Enjoying good movies has nothing to do with video quality.
If I didn't see another "movie industry" production for next fifty years, imagine how many good movies I would be able to see instead?
"Enjoying good movies has nothing to do with video quality". You, who makes extreme high quality amplifiers, don't think that video quality is important for the suspension of disbelief in watching films at home? I find that hard to believe. The better video quality the more one can get immersed in a film.
.
z
What, you trying to do AuPh on me? :-)But seriously, the movie theater experience has much more to do with image size, ambiance, idiots sneezing and eating their popcorn, that sort of things.
I watched so many old films in the theaters... lousy quality, but great experience. I get similar sensation when I watch Wages of Fear on my 96" screen at home.
To me the image quality is something one can quickly step over if films is good. Sure, good one is great, but it is like LP surface noise.
On an even more serious note, unless you truly just watch for image quality, once it gets to a certain level, it drops from the picture. The limited capability HD picture is already better than what you see in 85% of theaters.
But then... what do I know? I never watch any demo videos... I don't even listen to "demo" recordings...
"I watched so many old films in the theaters... lousy quality, but great experience. I get similar sensation when I watch Wages of Fear on my 96" screen at home."I'll bet! And I bet you've got a scaler driving the projector for your 96" screen, too! I'll also wager that you care more about visual quality than you're going to admit... C'mon Vic!
CHeers
People here seem to miss my point... it was not that quality didn't matter, it was that it doesn't matter *at some point*.To me that point was reached with good DVD's. The VHS tape was irritating often, unless it was a first gen tape - those could look quite good.
My argument is that given the quality level achievable with the best DVD's, I am not gonna miss that little extra that the HD provides, if it doesn't happen. I guess I have bigger concerns.
Couple that fact with another important one - that in all likelyhood what will be available (if ever...) for many years on HD DVD's will be something I will never want to watch, and you now have a complete picture.
I have about a dozen HD channels today. Do I ever watch them? Hardly ever. I did watch the Olympics - an easy choice, given the totally atrocious quality of the standard network cable channel. Otherwise I only use them as conversation piece... turn them on for guests.
In short, the HD DVD is completely irrelevant to my life, and so far nothing stated anywhere makes me feel contrary.
If it happens, I will probably get a few "demo" discs... the ones I will never watch myself voluntarily, but show to the guests.
But many of us are anxious to see the possible increase in image quality because we aren't happy with what we currently have. I'm sure you've got a good scaler/deinterlacer driving your projector... for a 96" screen, I hope you do! The point is this: video output from a Playstation 3 into a reasonably priced projector may soon rival what is available today for much more money (an understatement, for sure). It's undeniably an important development... just not for you (yet)!Cheers
x
I know I am not supposed to enjoy my Shostakovich on the plane... should be illegal.Or maybe I am just not a "quality guy".
delights are to a large extent visual. To have the clearest, brightest, sharpest image makes a significant difference in the visual appreciation.
I can think of several black and white films that I appreciated a lot more due to the new prints.
I think we all should realize we were talking about not getting full HD over the analog connection... which is a far cry from sitting in an uncomfortable room watching a 17", old and out of tune TV.Like I said, at CERTAIN point the quality stops playing an important role. For BL that point will be higher, but still, that point exists. So pardon me if I am not gonna lose any sleep over that component video thing.
Besides... if that HD format EVER becomes a reality (still a question), by that time pretty much every display will be HDMI.
But nothing like creating an issue where there is none.
A good movie badly projected or shown with less resolution is a less fulfilling film experience; that doesn't mean that it can't be good, but it does mean that it won't be as impressive. Certainly there's the law of diminishing return at play here when discussing resolution, but it works both ways, and the crappier a picture looks visually the less involving it is, and if the image is crappy enough it will actually draw attention away from the picture.Film patrons should be interested in all improvements to the film experience, both in movie houses and in home theater presentation.
That's my two cents; YMMV of course, but don't blame your stubborn attitude on Golum! ;^)
AuPh
I'd prefer to have both, but when it comes to motion pictures, I'll take size over quality. I've found that viewing a large moving image (on the scale of several feet, not inches) is usually a more involving experience than a viewing smaller picture, even one of greater resolution, contrast, and color gamut.-Anthony
I find myself agreeing with Victor!!!
Apart from the bit about LPs anyway...
... than seeing you decked out as a Napoleonic nerd while jonesin' for grey poupon like a crack cocaine addict? ;^)> > > "It sure sounds like there should be two separate forums. Enjoying good movies has nothing to do with video quality." < < <
I beg to differ, as the level of enjoyment of a good film increases with better video quality and this discussion is quite relevent for film enthusiasts on this forum even if it rankles your arse!
The looming HD-DVD/Blu-ray format war is of KEEN interest to many film lovers even if you aren't among them. Clark has provided a service by linking this information here even if you don't give a flip about it and want it moved to some other location.
> > > "If I didn't see another "movie industry" production for next fifty years, imagine how many good movies I would be able to see instead?" < < <
If I didn't see another piece of foreign grey poupon fluff with pretensions of social relevence and faux "realism" for the rest of my life, it would be too soon.
AuPh
Boo!
but disturbing---thanks!
z
"Historians will tell you that every movement, no matter how deeply rooted, that ceases to expand will turn and collapse in upon itself and finally disappear down a hole like the white rabbit."
x
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