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In Reply to: Ingmar Bergman on Michelangelo Antonioni and Monica Vitti posted by La Dolce Vita on March 20, 2006 at 22:36:17:
theater and film, himself.
Yes,he had a few good films but hardly superior to Antonioni.
It is amusing to see two titans duke it out.
Follow Ups:
if there is really such a thing.
Stands to reason, no? Anti-elitism is so...philistine.
.
nt
mentioned below, he may be to the depressive O'Neill, or... Tennessee Williams.
Shakespeare was a brilliant philosopher, poet, linguist, businessman, actor... and has stood in the forefront of theater by such a margin that none seriously challenge him.
I have read that Sophocles penned many great plays besides those we now have, with six or seven that won play of the year awards in Greece, but many of his most acclaimed plays, indeed most of his plays, have disappeared. At any rate, the Bard is the only playwright that has excelled in both tragedy and comedy.
One can think of perhaps two dozen directors equal to or surpassing Bergman.
Am I?
Well maybe.
Nothing more boring than so-called normality.
But letīs go back to my comparison...First and above all I did not say he is the Bard, I said in a way he reach at him.
Yes, his film like" A little Night Music " has the tune of the great man, and his deepness and reflexion are as valid.
He too is a man of theater.
Two dozen? Hum...
Now I am curious!
/.
nt
nt
does it make you feel better about humanity, does it uplift you or... do you feel depressed, negative?
Bergman is the classic, "glass is half-empty," guy and, FOR ME, that keeps him from reaching the pinnacle of artistry. Still, notice I did say, "titan." They were, after all, the parents of the gods.
Eugene O'Neill, in theatre, is similarly dark and pessimistic about the human condition. I think both take the easy way out. Finding hope, happiness, and peace--- and convincingly conveying it, is much more difficult.
Bergman, very occasionally, shows a glint of humor but hardly enough to leaven the goth.
Who'd want to spend much time with him; no wonder he's a infamous recluse.
/
...I've watched his films, read biographical and critical works, and even written some papers on Bergman. All of those actions simply increased my respect and admiration for his work. He tackles some of the most abiding themes in human culture and philosophy, and does so with magnificent creativity and penetration. His films cover a great range of tonalities. Some of his films do have tremendous flashes of humor, even if you haven't noticed it. "Persona" is certainly the film that, more than any other, I've thought to be my favorite film of all. (So, to me it's the best, but I'd hardly claim it's "the best film ever made.")Your assertion of the uniquely trite "half empty" or "half full" glass metaphor as a methodology for art criticism is inane at best. Not the kind of critical apparatus that a Northrop Frye or Eric Auerbach would employ, I must say! You sound to me like a Soviet apparatchik excoriating Shostakovich for writing music that doesn't "uplift the people." That's the kind of attitude that, in my view, leads to creative mediocrity. Sometimes the bleakest stories can be the most uplifting of all. What do think "catharsis" is all about, anyway?
You also appear to take some perverse pleasure in speaking of your opinions as if they were undeniable facts. As I may have said to you some months back, if you spoke in more balanced - and inquisitive - tones you'd find people considering your arguments a lot more carefully and seriously. When you speak in these categorical pronouncements you come across as both imperious and ill-considered.
Few if any will object if you don't like Bergman. No harm in that. But when you take the legacy of someone considered by so many to possess a creative mind of the highest order and speak of his work with a kind of supercilious dismissiveness, in the end you say more about the limiting effect of your own attitudes than about anything outside yourself. You may defend yourself by saying "Hey, I called him a titan," but you're really only using that as a smoke screen to help you get away with dismissing him.
I think many of Bergman's films are high-order masterpieces. Maybe I even believe that he's the greatest film director ever. But you won't hear me saying that he "is" the greatest director who ever lived. Only that he's my favorite or that, in my *opinion,* he is the best of all. The discussion gains nothing by asserting myself categorically. I know I'm not the pope.
eb
He aspires to humility.
...that you aspire to humility while the rest of us don't?
You just seem unable to gaze into the mirror and see yourself. Must be your great good looks.
Hadn't received one in days...
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