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shares a remarkable resemblance to Eric Bana, star of Munich!
He's a far better actor, though... and it's his first role.
Director Hany Abu-Assad, a Palestinian who in interviews has refused to condemn suicide bombers, nevertheless manages to fashion a story far from a polemic.
Two young men, long-time friends, are chosen for a joint suicide mission in Israel to be carried out the next day. These are not slathering, turbaned zealots but rather thoughtful, desperate, and resigned characters. The film carefully explores the conditions, both societal and social, which could lead to such futility.
The film largely was shot in Nablus, a West Bank town which at the time regularly was invaded by Israeli patrols and tanks. One scene was being filmed during which a "real" missile struck close by, resulting in the immediate quitting of the film by eight German technicians. Filming largely resumed in the somewhat safer town of Nazareth.
You may not see a more powerful film this year.
Though it is all but impossible to consider such a film in artistic terms alone--- such an incendiary topic plays havoc with emotions--- it stands as a fine film with carefully drawn characters, enormous tension, and a complex rendition of a confusing and disturbing problem.
Follow Ups:
Then fuck him and on top his film.
I wonīt even think of discussing a film coming from a murderer.
***Two young men, long-time friends, are chosen for a joint suicide mission in Israel to be carried out the next day. These are not slathering, turbaned zealots but rather thoughtful, desperate, and resigned characters.Ah, so THAT'S what they are! And here I was thinking they were simply bloody mass-murderers.
And for people like you and some others here - their "mission" was NOT a ***suicide*** - heck, none of us would lose any sleep if all those creeps simply commited suicide somewhere in the desert - their mission was murdering innocent people.
"thoughtful, desperate, and resigned characters" get capped by Mossad before they can enact their plan to spill the blood of innocents.I have sympathy for Palestinians who don't think it's a good idea to go around murdering people, but I also remember scenes of mass celebrations in the streets of the West Bank in the wake of the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.
The civilized world is in a street fight with these thugs. I have as much sympathy for them as I do for someone who might try to hurt one of my loved ones.
Heaven help them all if they ever manage to lob something big and nasty into Isreal.
*
murdering robots without ever asking the question "why?"
This film's director has a bit more intellectual curiosity than you and, with great honesty, he explores the human soul.
Yes, the would-be bombers are portrayed as "thoughtful," i.e. they consider the actions they are about to take very carefully.
You may well wonder why they are "desperate." Even serial killers have motives, though to equate these men with that class of criminal is naive. In ancient times, conquerors such as Alexander, Tamerlane, Caesar, and Genghis Khan made a practice of slaughtering all the civilians of conquered cities as a lesson to those that would oppose them. Palestinians hardly are conquerors in seeking the return of lands taken from them by force. You'd prefer them to... meet the Israelis in open fields of battle? Somehow, I don't remember Menachen Begin using this tactic when he bombed a hospital full of wounded and dying.
The "why" of the situation is absolutely clear - they want to kill Jews because they had been taught to think Jews lie at the root of all their problems, not Arafat, not their corrupt and murderous "government" - but of course the Jews. They are reliving the Nazi Germany of the thirties.If you can't even get to this first base, then perhaps you were the perfect audience for the film.
Personally I only see the question "Why does the mass-murdered kill so many?" as an academic exercise. We did not ask this question in the forties, we destroyed the killing machine, and later people wrote book on that "Why?"
Same should be done here. The Palestinians, if they want to be taken seriously, not as a gang of rapists and murderers, must first stop their murderous ways - not the other way around.
When they FINALLY renounce violence, when they start creating a lawful society with freedom of speech and expression for all, something that the Jews had done decades ago, ONLY THEN will the world start treating them as equals and not bandits hell bent on destroying life, not creating it.
As it is now, you are watching this piece of propaganda from a totalitarian regime, and as you seem to agree with their objectives, you are willing to overlook their bloody ways.
As I said elsewhere, you seek to demonise the victims which is far closer to Nazi behaviour than anything.
You are the champion of the Big Lie.
A lesson you have learned well.
excellent. If you want propaganda, i.e. Palestinians slathering with Zionist racist hate slogans, enthusiastic to die and chanting Koran passages as they smilingly go off to receive their virgins... fine. It is your loss.
I don't know why you're so scared to see it and form your own opinion.
You have zero sympathy or even empathy with Palestinians and that's your right.
Comparing them to Nazis is so... ironic. And unfair.
Nazis were as corrupt as the Palestinians.
And as murderous.
I did not force you to portray the murderers as "thoughtful" individual, something that insults all their victims. You choose to do so apparently under your own free will, so now do not whine and do not try to miss-represent my views. If some day I make political statements in my review of a film here, then by all means you can go ahead and attack what I said. Untill then your words about me are just an innuendo, while your position was stated rather clearly."Thoughtfull"...
There's a lot more going on in it than you may think (based on your reaction to a couple of the words used in tin's analysis).It's not cut and dry, there are voices in the film extremely opposed to these bombings and the would be bombers are not so easily pigeon-holed (and the rage of one of the main characters is more family based). Also, there is - in my opinion - a good but subtle portrayel of how these men are being used by the radical Palestinian power structure.
I can't say more without giving away major plot points but it's worth a look and would be very interesting to discuss if you see it.
"Except for the point, the still point, There would be no dance, and there is only the dance. " T.S. Eliot
See how little it takes to make you happy... there are voiced opposing slaughter of innocent... like there should be any questions about that!First and foremost they should (and they will not, of course) show those monsters for what they are - scum of the Earth, murderers of the innocent, and perhaps then we would take those films seriously.
...and a few more did write very good things. And under Stalin, there was that man Eisenstein, not to mention quite a few more. And Shostakovich, Prokofiev...And you ignore the good films coming from Iran...
Reducing your argument to what it actually is: "Israel is good, Palestinians are evil" is so easy that it doesnīt even need being done!
Maybe you should live in Flatland...
Regards
BF
.
you're right, all it took to make me happy and think it was a good film was for someone to voice their opposition to the slaughter of innocents.I see now how foolish that was and I hate this movie, I hate it!!
"Except for the point, the still point, There would be no dance, and there is only the dance. " T.S. Eliot
...to stop it.For as long as people will keep making excuses for murderers the slaughter shall continue. Those who orchestrate them are smart, they have been in power for decades and have learned how to manipulate the masses.
When we see mass protests against slaughter, when we see at least some freedom of expression without fear of death in the Palestinian society, when we see free elections and the beginning of democratic process, when we finally see the desire to live side by side with others, not to destroy them, then I too will be a happy man.
Until then... I am glad at least someone is happy.
Victor's Final Solution.
.
"Except for the point, the still point, There would be no dance, and there is only the dance. " T.S. Eliot
... facetious, although he does seem to think it alright for Israelis to murder Palestinians.
As there is no (to my knowledge) refernce in his posts to Israelis killing Palestinians but repeated condemnations of Palestinians killing Israelis, it can only be assumed he has no problem with it.
At this point in his hateful inanity, I am merely provoking him.
"Israelis killing Palestinians???" Did you forget to add "militants"?.
I can't really recall Israelis killing any civilians for the sake of killing civilians in the context of "wiping Palestine from the map".
I always thought it was Palestinians operating on this principle.
Dude, get your facts straight, as Victor suggested.
Also try to recall who walked away from all the peace initiatives offered by Israel?
If their corrupt government cares so much about their own people, they would be the ones at the negotiations table trying to reach at least some kind of compromise.
Of course not giving Israel a right to exist is the easiest way NOT to have peace and to continue getting help fro Iran, Libya and the likes. All you really have to do, is to indoctrinate your own people in hatred of Israel, and make suicide a noble way to end their miserable, hateful lifes.
... it sounds too awful.
Do you really beieve all that?
Here's an offer of peace.. you can live in this area we don't want or we will say you don't want peace... what is your answer?
Its just bullshit.
If you don't think Israelis kill Palestinians then I suppose you would like your house bulldosed while people are in it. Your town bombed and rocketed by the military and in fact to have had your country taken from you at gunpoint.
Wake up please.
Oh, that's something new. Israelis bulldoze Palestinian houses just for the fun of it. Silly me, I thought they do it only after offering people to leave or to surrender(if there are a suspected militants) first.
Omitting these small details makes it so much easier for you to sell your point of view, doesn't it?
If there is an example of a military operating on such strictly enforced humane principals as Israelis, I don't know which one is.
You would probably vote for treating poor Palestinian suicide bombers, militants and their families wearing velvet gloves.
Bulldoze a house down- that's a worst artrocity known to mankind.(Waco camp anyone?)
Suicide bombing and Nazis genocide? not even close. Well, of course, they have a human face and a cause.
Again, Dude, get your facts straight.
... reaching for your gun.
Either that or your dick.
... your use of language and logic is so distorted that you could have been a great success in Nazi Germany.
damn Vic! From good ol ruskie to neoconservative american repub!
Actually I agree they can all walk out in the desert and blow them selves up. I can even wish for a nice little nuke war between some of those nations. Shit, let the Mullahs get the nukes, they'll end up using them on their neighbours, big deal.
But then I take a second and think what I'd do in their situation. What weapons do they have anyways? Whould I like to be occupied? Have no rights, no future, no solder for my iron? I think we get way too little insight into the other side in this conflict. As a former USMarine I hurt everytime one of my mates gets killed over there, but I hurt equally knowing arrogant neoconservatives somehow manage to fukk this up so badly. We need to get some other views to get away from the tunnel vision of Bush and co and movies like this may help.
which is more than can be said for Vic's rabid propaganda.
Despite anything he "claims" there is nothing in this film which fits the lurid posts he insists on inflicting on us.
I agree with you that the saddest point is that these people feel they have nothing left to fight with but their lives, as opposed to the supposed "clean" wars that major nations... ok, the USA, prefers to fight with its "smart" weapons.
A death is a death and each one diminishes us all.
point to Islam and the promise of the virgins as the primary motivation for suicide bombers. Ah, that's it! They're religious fanatics! They don't value life as we do, either others or theirs.
A rudimentary familiarity with history shows the commonality of these views among adversaries.
Certainly, religion plays a part---- that of consolation. The motivation, of course, is the passionate belief that this is the only way left to make the enemy feel, no matter how small or short-lived, some of the pain which Palestinians have felt for many, many decades.
The tragedy in the situation is that Israelis, at least the older ones, also suffered terribly but NOT at the hands of Arabs.
If all you need is an excuse, then you can stick to your notion. However, the problem is not really the religion, but what the society leaders do with it.As some of us know, an Islamic country can be at least moderately progressive, like Turkey. But when hate is your slogan and your only goal in life is the extermination of other peoples, then religion can also be used to that end, as we are seeing in some Muslim countries today, and also in Palestine.
I know you want to equate the Palestinian sufferings with deeds of the Jews, and that is yet another convenient refuge for someone afraid to face the reality.
Truth is, the harshest, the most severe suffering they had received, with the highest humber of them killed, jailed, abused, raped, etc. was in the hands of their Arab "brothers" - people like the Egyptians and the Jordanians. If you don't recall the wholesale slaughter of the Palestinians in the hands of King of Jordan, of the savage treatment they received from the Egyptians, but just keep coming with the notion that all their problems stem from the Israeli presence, then you are simply not telling the truth.
As far as Jews having NOT suffered at the hands of Arabs... this is another one of your lies. Need I remind you that the goal of the Arab Legion in 1948 was to drown all Jews in the sea?
How conveniently you forget all that. And how empty is your rhetoric, void of any knowledge of history.
bleep
... Propaganda is always thus, providing simplistic solutions.
I presume you were out there destroying Beatles records back in the 60s...
Your hatred and intolerence lights the night sky like a cross on a front lawn...
Also good for your health would be learning to call a spade a spade."Suicide bombers"... my ass!
bodies are the delivery mechanism.
It is pointless to discuss the morality/amorality/immorality of such a tactic. We disagree, of course, and neither of us stoneheads likely will convince the other. But you may wish to see an extremely realistic depiction of how Palestinians view themselves.
When Israel displaced Palestinians, you do realize all the Palestinians weren't military, right? And that Israelis elect the government which carries out their desires?
And that Israel has one of the most sophisticated, powerfully armed militaries in the world with the solid backing of the lone world super-power?
Anyhow, it truly is amazing that Palestinians continue to resist. Reminds me of the Jews in Masada, actually...
... as used by the Nazis against the Jews has been as much used, although for a longer period, by the Jews against the Palestinians.
Its the cheap trick of the defence attornies of rapists against their victims.
.
What did you expect? He's been tossed out of Outside forum, so he's trying to spew his inane tripe here under the guise of a "review".
.... even if not in your posts.
bleep
.
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