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In Reply to: "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner" posted by rico on June 5, 2006 at 07:30:04:
I also have not seen it in a long time, and not looking forward to another viewing, frankly.Tracy is of course enjoyable, the rest of the film is just trite dreck... agree 100% on Poitier, but that has been his traditional type cast role, and that trend continued with Denzel Washington, hence I refuse to see his movies too.
Perhaps if instead of a Harward or whatever graduate they showed a working class black guy there would be some red meat to the film?
I know, I know... I know when it was made, but still, predictability and sugar coating are what they are, no matter when made.
Follow Ups:
"Perhaps if instead of a Harward or whatever graduate they showed a working class black guy there would be some red meat to the film?"Then the point of the film would have been lost. If he is a "working class black", then the basis of the parent's objections would have been vague. Are they objecting because he is black, or because he is working class, and they want their precious daughter to marry a professional? By making him a Harvard graduate, the screenwriters created a character who has the "credentials" to be otherwise acceptable for their daughter, their only possible objection being that he is black. I think he was made to be a Harvard graduate to eliminate any reason for the audience to conclude he was not acceptable.
Certainly, the film seems dated today, and to that extent, maybe not a classic. But taking into account the social issues at the time the film was made, the film was, at that time, very topical, and made a statement about, and took a position on, race relations that were not accepted in many parts of the country, and still are not in many places. Certainly, there were not many films from anywhere in the world that were advocating the positions Guess Who was taking. While it may not seem brave today, it was certainly was at that time. To that extent, the film merits a recommendation.
So instead of elevating the black guy's class status the makers could have brought the white family closer to "normal people".I dont' know about you, but I always cringe at seeing yet another Manhattan apartment, people dressed in nothing but evening gowns and smokings in some of those films. Tracy'f films are rarely exception to that rule.
The point wasn't just that racism was an issue at that time. The point was IMO that it was easy to be a progressive liberal in favor of equal rights for all....until it comes home. So rich progressives were the best characters for this film. they are the ones we see acting high and mighty about the issues that don't actally happen in their back yard. I thought it made an excellent point about idealism of the comfortable and how it is much harder when the issues you champion become personal. that makes the movie much richer nad multilayered IMO. And lets not forget that they took on a very hot topic at the time, took a bold stand and made a light hearted comedy all at once. They also made some very interesting and gutsy choices. Don't forget that the black father never really accepted the marriage. The interplay between the two married couples were yet another layer filled with social observation/comentary. This was a very well crafted film that addressed all these issues and wove all thes layers in a very effortless way in the form of a drawing room comedy. i mean, imagine if it were a serious preachy movie. That would have been boring
Problem is, that with rare exceptions, film makers generally spend so much time being in that crowd, that is the only world they know. And usually when they enter the "real world", it is to poke fun. They make their "real people" contributions supporting Clinton/Gore/Kerry.
Or maybe if it didn't have a liberal slant. The movie is a classic.
When you say "classic" I would hope there would be the works of the To Kill a Mockingbird caliber, not that sort of a shallow feel-good margerine spread.
To Kill a Mockingbird is another classic though.
Not too bad. To Kill was jusn named recently the best adaptation work by the Guardian readers.
nt
I left a cinema during a film only once in my life. It was 1968 or 1969, and I went to cinema with my last money, to “Guess who…”. But I could’nt bear it. I felt embarrassed, unpleasant. It was’nt only the “a shallow feel-good margerine”. I think it was that kind of latent racism, a kind of a “We are all human beings – even the blacks” – attitude, that made me leave.
you may have came away with that idea but it certainly wasn't the intent nor the common reaction.
Of course, that was not the intention, and the common reaction probably was a more naïve one. But I suppose it was intented to be a kind educationally film, and you may find a “secret teaching-flat” behind it. I saw the film in Germany 1968, when I was a student and interested in those subjects. My reaction at that time: I never would visit this film with a black friend; he could feel insulted by it.
In addition to the typcally American cuteness you see in many weak movies.
Not. Kind of ironic that you would complain that Guess who's coming to diner is some how racist and then you would make a comment like that. What do you think was the trust, the theme, the primary point of the movie? Seriously, what do you think the film makers were trying to say?
I guess they wanted to say something along the "racism is bad" lines, just didn't know how.By comparisson, To Kill the Mockinbird DID know how to say it.
That makes it a classic.
American film makers don't need to be ashamed of themselves, as long as they don't try to speak an unfamiliar language. There are tons of Hollywood movies to love, things like It Happened One Night... and many others from that era, sparkling with great humor and not suffering from that "cuteness" syndrom.
"I guess they wanted to say something along the "racism is bad" lines, just didn't know how."I think that most people would agree publically with that statement. I think that the film went a little deeper. I have lost count of people who say they are not racist, yet look critically at mixed marriage couple, or the children of a mixed marriage, as though racism only equates with slavery or black only restaurants, restrooms, and hotels. The purpose of Guess Who, as I see the film, was to demonstrate that racism is present in those who are willing to work with persons of color, socialize with persons of color, believe in equality, yet are willing to do so when their sons and daughters want to marry, and they must welcome such persons in their household.
Well, yes, I think that was a clear message, and I do not have any problem with the message itself, just the way it was done... I mentioned one aspect - sugar coating it by giving the black guy all his incredible credentials - patronizing...Plus all the characters had as much connection to real life as Clint Eastwood Pale Rider.
BTW - accepting mixed marriages doesn't create problems just for racists - some people would not want it for their children due to potential complications in the society with remnant racism on both sides.
a) poor black male and rich white girl?b) poor white male and rich black girl?
c) poor white male and poor black girl?
What other combination would you find plausable that would work in this story?
The idea of upper class mobility NOT precluding racism was an essential part of that story; it provided food for thought at a time when some African Americans (albeit very few in the late sixties) were beginning to break out of the rigid social class structures. The movie may seem dated in some aspects, but the essential elements hold true whether they make you feel uncomfortable or not.
AuPh
... if Josephine Baker had been cast in Claudette Colbert's place? ;^)Food for thought.
AuPh
"I guess they wanted to say something along the "racism is bad" lines, just didn't know how."No. Not even close.
"By comparisson, To Kill the Mockinbird DID know how to say it."They both knew how to say what they wanted to say. It just didn't come through for you with Guess who's coming to diner. no big deal. It happens to all of us. But the movie did work for many of us.
"That makes it a classic."
Classics are a matter of opinions of many diverse and knowledgable people. They are both classics.
"American film makers don't need to be ashamed of themselves, as long as they don't try to speak an unfamiliar language."Is that what was wrong with The Passion of Christ? ;-)
" There are tons of Hollywood movies to love, things like It Happened One Night... and many others from that era, sparkling with great humor and not suffering from that "cuteness" syndrom."There certainly are some other great movies from that era. I think you just didn't get it with this particular movie. No big deal.
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