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In Reply to: Re: Match Point posted by Analog Scott on June 5, 2006 at 11:40:13:
I did not condiser it a masterpiece, but on balance it is a good movie. I enjoyed my time with it.
Follow Ups:
I found none. For me, that is a big problem. if I have zero interest in the fate of the lead character then... in this case everything that happens is uninteresting. More to the point though. This guy is a bore with no direction in life. Every choice the character makes is either idiotic or sociapathic. And then he gets away with it by dumb luck. I don't think that clever matching shots of a ring and a tennis ball falling on the same side of the court really redeems the movie. To me that is a case of cuteness without substance. A case of no meat on the bone.
SPOILER below...
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.Okay, one last flogging of the dead horse:
Match Point is a STORY driven plot as opposed to CHARACTER driven plot; the viewer's investment is in how the story plays out (the ironies) rather than whether one LIKES the characters or would prefer a moral value added happy-meal ending. Yes, in a perfect world the tennis instructor would be serving life in prison for his crime rather than climbing socially in a loveless marriage, but that's the way life plays out sometimes. The beauty of this film is in the underlying irony of it's tennis analogy and how defeat or victory can hinge on a simgle event and a bit of luck.
Yes, Match Point has a bit of the shaggy dog, O'Henry-esque feel to it, but Woody manages to create the rich atmosphere of a 50's era Alfred Hitchcock film while embellishing it with the kind of wry contemporary twist that couldn't have been released without a more liberal MPCA code.
AuPh
"Okay, one last flogging of the dead horse:"Oh flog as much as you want. That's part of the fun.
"Match Point is a STORY driven plot as opposed to CHARACTER driven plot;"
Well, as I said in another post, as a plot it was no different than your typical Twilight Zone episode although Serling was able to tell the same sort of story in a half hour and with more interesting characters. As a story it was a shaggy dog with one twist. Nothing wrong with that but you better make me care about that twist by seducing me into caring about the chcaracters it affects. It didn't. So it amounted to little punch line at the end of a long winded joke for me.
"the viewer's investment is in how the story plays out (the ironies) rather than whether one LIKES the characters or would prefer a moral value added happy-meal ending."
Not worried about happy endings. But the story was linear. It was driven by character whose motives were shallow and sociopathic and whose actions were governed by stupidity and protected by far fetched dumb luck. So, dumb luck rewards stupidity and sociopathy? ironic? I suppose. Interesting? No. A worthy theme? Not IMO. Yeah I will invest in an intriging well spun complcated plot with nuance and some well earned surprise. I will be taken in by unique, well crafted arcs. I didn't see it here. it was well crafted but the big design was painfully conventional. nothing wrong with being conventional if you make it interesting.
" Yes, in a perfect world the tennis instructor would be serving life in prison for his crime rather than climbing socially in a loveless marriage, but that's the way life plays out sometimes."
That isn't my problem with the movie. My problem is I didn't care either way. I would have rather cared and been outraged by his fortune.
" The beauty of this film is in the underlying irony of it's tennis analogy and how defeat or victory can hinge on a simgle event and a bit of luck."
The juxtaposition of the two shots was nice. Wish they could have done more in two hours with a good idea. Could have made a good short film."Yes, Match Point has a bit of the shaggy dog, O'Henry-esque feel to it, but Woody manages to create the rich atmosphere of a 50's era Alfred Hitchcock film while embellishing it with the kind of wry contemporary twist that couldn't have been released without a more liberal MPCA code."
I did not find the same atmosphere that you did. Maybe I missed something.
I thought the character did a fine job doing what he was supposed to - yes, pointless existence, wrong choices... human, in short... not the best human, but I think a very real person. I could perfectly feel some of his emotions... well, perhaps I am as rotten as he is, I don't know, but they did not feel artificial to me.I agree on his fate - I too don't care, but the movie was not about that... and while I agree in the character development it leaves something to be desired, that was just one element of the film... it was like an extremely well made painting to me, and who cares the characters there were shallow fools of different kinds? You see those fools in every court portrait by Velázquez, yet they are masterpieces.
The atmosphere, the music, the imagery and smooth flow that Woody had created were all seductive, even though, as I said, this is not a great movie - did you see my original review?
"I thought the character did a fine job doing what he was supposed to - yes, pointless existence, wrong choices... human, in short... not the best human, but I think a very real person."
Hmm. I can see your point...to a point. Flawed yes as all characters ought to be. But very real? I suppose in an OJ kind of way (although OJ has far more personality and complexity) I do think the actor did a good job but...well my views of this character have already been lyed out." I could perfectly feel some of his emotions... well, perhaps I am as rotten as he is, I don't know, but they did not feel artificial to me."
I saw his emotions, well acted. I didn't feel them because I just don't relate to sociopaths. I hope you are not nearly as rotten. he did kill in cold blood out of convenience. I guess that would be why I related him to OJ minus the complexity and personality.
"I agree on his fate - I too don't care, but the movie was not about that... and while I agree in the character development it leaves something to be desired, that was just one element of the film... it was like an extremely well made painting to me, and who cares the characters there were shallow fools of different kinds?"
I do but I find your painting analogy an interestng one. But as for that where you see art I see craft.
" You see those fools in every court portrait by Velázquez, yet they are masterpieces."Pehaps because paintings are dominated by form, color, texture etc. Much of the analogus elements in film come from story arcs and character. The story arc is straight from a typical Twilight zone episode. not that tht is bad thing but Serling managed to perform the same effect in a typical half hour episodes nd he usually had interesting characters to boot.
'The atmosphere, the music, the imagery and smooth flow that Woody had created were all seductive, even though, as I said, this is not a great movie"
I agree that those elements were well crafted. But for me to be art it has to go beyond the craft and convey something more.
" - did you see my original review?"Yes. One of your better reviews IMO. Your analogy makes more sense of your like for this movie. Indeed in paintings the content can be quite novel or even vulgar but if the aesthetic is superb the painting may still be good. I suppose we differ on how good those elements really are in this movie and the importance of character.
I think this was an interesting discussion, thank you! I need to think about a couple of things you said, and in the meantime, my mind is severely affected by two Russian films - the Master and Margarita, and, to a lesser degree, the Night Watch.The M&M will keep me thinking for some time, as it did when I read the book many years ago, as it is a complex work... really, too bad it is not available here yet.
The Night Watch is, on the other hand, readily available, and I think some people will find it quite interesting. Much has been written on it, so I will not go there.
Victor,
could you share your impressions of Master and Margarita and Night Watch, please.
I watched both, but will wait to express my opinion.
Saw that on the big screen. we will have to talk about it. And thank you for the discussion.
Why don't you take the first stab - I would be interested in reading it.
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