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In Reply to: what redeeming value did you find in the lead character? posted by Analog Scott on June 5, 2006 at 12:49:09:
I thought the character did a fine job doing what he was supposed to - yes, pointless existence, wrong choices... human, in short... not the best human, but I think a very real person. I could perfectly feel some of his emotions... well, perhaps I am as rotten as he is, I don't know, but they did not feel artificial to me.I agree on his fate - I too don't care, but the movie was not about that... and while I agree in the character development it leaves something to be desired, that was just one element of the film... it was like an extremely well made painting to me, and who cares the characters there were shallow fools of different kinds? You see those fools in every court portrait by Velázquez, yet they are masterpieces.
The atmosphere, the music, the imagery and smooth flow that Woody had created were all seductive, even though, as I said, this is not a great movie - did you see my original review?
Follow Ups:
"I thought the character did a fine job doing what he was supposed to - yes, pointless existence, wrong choices... human, in short... not the best human, but I think a very real person."
Hmm. I can see your point...to a point. Flawed yes as all characters ought to be. But very real? I suppose in an OJ kind of way (although OJ has far more personality and complexity) I do think the actor did a good job but...well my views of this character have already been lyed out." I could perfectly feel some of his emotions... well, perhaps I am as rotten as he is, I don't know, but they did not feel artificial to me."
I saw his emotions, well acted. I didn't feel them because I just don't relate to sociopaths. I hope you are not nearly as rotten. he did kill in cold blood out of convenience. I guess that would be why I related him to OJ minus the complexity and personality.
"I agree on his fate - I too don't care, but the movie was not about that... and while I agree in the character development it leaves something to be desired, that was just one element of the film... it was like an extremely well made painting to me, and who cares the characters there were shallow fools of different kinds?"
I do but I find your painting analogy an interestng one. But as for that where you see art I see craft.
" You see those fools in every court portrait by Velázquez, yet they are masterpieces."Pehaps because paintings are dominated by form, color, texture etc. Much of the analogus elements in film come from story arcs and character. The story arc is straight from a typical Twilight zone episode. not that tht is bad thing but Serling managed to perform the same effect in a typical half hour episodes nd he usually had interesting characters to boot.
'The atmosphere, the music, the imagery and smooth flow that Woody had created were all seductive, even though, as I said, this is not a great movie"
I agree that those elements were well crafted. But for me to be art it has to go beyond the craft and convey something more.
" - did you see my original review?"Yes. One of your better reviews IMO. Your analogy makes more sense of your like for this movie. Indeed in paintings the content can be quite novel or even vulgar but if the aesthetic is superb the painting may still be good. I suppose we differ on how good those elements really are in this movie and the importance of character.
I think this was an interesting discussion, thank you! I need to think about a couple of things you said, and in the meantime, my mind is severely affected by two Russian films - the Master and Margarita, and, to a lesser degree, the Night Watch.The M&M will keep me thinking for some time, as it did when I read the book many years ago, as it is a complex work... really, too bad it is not available here yet.
The Night Watch is, on the other hand, readily available, and I think some people will find it quite interesting. Much has been written on it, so I will not go there.
Victor,
could you share your impressions of Master and Margarita and Night Watch, please.
I watched both, but will wait to express my opinion.
Saw that on the big screen. we will have to talk about it. And thank you for the discussion.
Why don't you take the first stab - I would be interested in reading it.
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