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In Reply to: "But, the Emperor has no Clothes!" : Frank Gehry posted by Bambi B on October 9, 2006 at 06:36:30:
and you apparently don't like Gehry either....are there any contemporary architects whose work you are fond of? BTW, I went recently to the Getty Center for the first time and enjoyed the atmosphere immensely. I wish I had more opportunity to explore the grounds but that will be an excuse to go back in the near future...
Follow Ups:
TWB,I probably sound more negative about the Getty Center than it deserves. Individually, Meier is adept and makes neat solutions, but, as an ensemble I've thought the Getty was a completely souless collection of discarded office building designs. I knew the landscape architect for the Malibu Getty "The Villa" and this friend had done the first lacdscape designs for the Brentwood Getty. He talked of Meier as a rigid, egotistical maniac living in a universe of his own design- alone. I heard Meier once went through the cafeteria and creamed at emplyees, shouting that the chairs were not the distance away from the tables he had specified. The Getty Center is not terrible, but it is one of the greatest missed opportunity of the the entire 20th Century to do something amazing. The art collection is grade B- and they had $1 Billion so in context it seems a comparative failure. I wished the Getty had been done by Barragan- who probably would have introduced a poetic serenity and cohesion instead of coliding corporate offices. It feels like an expensive medical clinic and i always expect someone is going to tell me to "open wide".
Likewise Disney Hall has turned into another missed opportunity as it produced a hall of spotty functionality- I find the sound just terrible, and though I'm not terribly tall- 6'2", I sit in those expensive seats ($64 each for a piano recital and $15 parking) with my arms pulled in and my kness pressed against the seat in front. I'm all for exciting and interesting architecture, but Gehry makes his art musuems about his art with the real art as an afterthought that gets fit in later. Apparently the concert halls are all about his art too. I've been to a number of concerts at the Concertgebouw (Amsterdam) the Dismal Hall is supposed to be moldelled after and I can tell you Gehry must've spent all that time in the wrong hall- the two places have nothing in common. It's self-conscious and in my view, Gehry's reputation for being so sypmathetic to artists is akin to referring to George Bush as the Prince of Peace.
As an aside, I might mention I used to get in trouble when I had a radio programme for calling it "Dismal Hall". I also used to call the "Dorothy Chandler Pavilion" the "Dorky Chandalier". If you've been there you'll know what this refers to. In Los Angeles, no one is allowed to criticize the Disney or Getty on any level- vorboten in order to maintain civic pride.
There have been many architects I've admired in the 20th Centurry, but most of my heroes were working at the turn of the 19th to 20th Century: Voysey, Gaudi, Lutyens, Olbrich, FL Wright, CR Makintosh, Greene and Greene- I think the James House in Carmel Highlands is one of the greatest houses anywhere-, and then on to Corbusier- yes there is poetry in Corbu- Kahn, Venturi, Hollein, Barragan and so on. I knew Hadid, Liebskind, and Koolhaus too from school days but esp with Hadid who is an arrogant brat,a m not too excited with any of their work. The new Denver art mauseum by Liebskind is another example of 'desparate' architecture.
My particular favourite among contemporary architects is Charles Moore, who I think had the most integrated concepts and forms- and was endlessly inventive. He wrote extensively and intelligently and was a truly humane, socially conscious artist. I worked on a house with Moore in Singapore and he was one of the three or four smartest people I've ever spent time with- creative to the nth degree and friendly and accessible.
Cheers,
Bambi B
one agrees 100%. I too found the Getty completely unimpressive... and I visited soon after it's opening when it was being universally raved upon.
A month ago, I visited the arts center desinged by Gehry at Bard College. It looked cookie-cutterish, Bilbao-lite.
I believe the Phoenix AZ library is Koolhaas's work? I liked it very much.
Meier's art museum in Atlanta is nice, though enough with the white, already.
Graves has an enchanting building in Portland OR but it's impossible to see much of the interior spaces, they're private.
On a trip to Ft. Worth, I visited the Tadao Ando "addition" to the Kahn museum. Spectacular from the outside but it has those massive interior spaces, lit with huge glass walls, which are rather uninteresting. Good for the my-sculpture-is-bigger-than-your's artists, however.
You also neglected another current darling... Piano. And that Italian chap who built, in Milwaukee I believe, that building with the piercing roofline?
FLW continues to be my favorite "modern" architect: his interior spaces are so quiet, tranquil... and on a human scale.
calling Louis I.Kahn ...Herbert. What a dumb f***.
what a bunch of clechei comments.
post drunk!
Maybe you should take your own advice.
If you Google the British Museum you will find the extraordinary conversion/adaptatiojn Richard Rogers has done to this wonderful space in London. It involved the demolition of nearly an entire block of sheds surrounding the original byuilding which stopped anyone seeing the library. I seem to remember that the glass roof covers several acres...Its spectacular.
or did you mean 5'2".... as 6'2" IS tall!!! Sorry to hear the seating at Disney Hall isn't better or the sound (which is FAR more important). I have only driven by and observed from the exterior...I am a fan of Gehry's work...I've been to the museum in Seattle and do plan to attend a function @ Disney someday when there is an event that I think warrants the ridiculous prices they charge for admission. I'm very sorry that I missed hearing Linda Eder (who I'm a fan of) sing there...and have been watching for one of my favorite conductors to lead there on a visit (Jansons or Zinman). THEN, I'll pay...Maybe if Ms. Streisand performed there...I agree with you on the Dorothy Chandler....that place needs a remodel!!! I did see some good shows there over the years....(the ORIGINAL Chicago with Gwen Verdon and Chita Rivera and The Act with Ms. Minnelli. I actually prefer the Ahmanson to DCP...Like you I too am a huge fan of FLW's work as well...when I used to travel in my job, I'd stay at The Biltmore in Scottsdale (even though he only ghost designed it) the rooms there are huge and the grounds I love....I'm not by any stretch of the imagination an expert on architecture...I only know what I like...as to Charles Moore...didn't the Pasadena Showcase House do one of his homes in recent years? Not sure though...I do plan to make it to the Malibu Getty someday as well...when I went to the Getty Center I asked one of the docents about it and she said it is far and away better than it ever was....
TWB,Yes, 6'2". Actually, the Dutch are currently the tallest people in the World, the average Dutch Woman is 6'1" and men 6'3". When I'm in Amsterdam, I feel delightfully petite!
The Sound at Disney Hall: In my only three visits- a small sample, I did hear good sound and have legroom on one occasion, and that's when I sat right in front of the stage and was hearing the sound very directly. -This cost almost $90. On the sides and too far back, the sound to me is atrocious and for a particular reassn: I hear a lot of detail, but it's all from the audience: coughing, programme rattling and someone taking something out of a wrapper. I can hear these noises from completely across the hall and it's far too distractingly powerful. The sound heard from the performers may still be quite refined, but if it's penetrated and overwhelmed by coughing and wrapppers- it's not much use. And after probably 2000+ live performances in my lifetime and playing three instruments, I'm quite good at concentrating on music while cutting out extraneous noises.
The Getty Malibu: The Malibu Getty Roman villa copy is so delightfully goofy in concept, I really liked it. The amusing part is that it was orignally placed backwards with the entry facing into the hill and the "back garden" facing the Pacific. You entered by parking in a dim, industrial underground car park with the air conditioning ducts and suddenly rose into the back of a mosaicced and muralled topiary garden and went back suddenly 20 centuries. It was so shocking a contrast, I used to think it was deliberate Post-Modern irony. So, you came in the back door could see the Getty's famous multi-million Dollar fake Kouros.
I tried to visit for the first time since the reopening for this past weekend, but it's all booked up. I understand the entry is redone to enter from the proper front of the villa and towards the Ocean. The restaraunt has been removed to make this entry more open, and I think there's an impressive new amphitheatre round the back. I'm anxious to see it- from descriptions, the docents yuo spoke to are accurate- it must have resolved all the strange aspects of the old layout.
My late friend Dennis Kurutz was the original landscape designer for Emmet Wimpole and even in it's goofy original form, because of the setting and landscape, it was always a treat to visit- very serene. I am frankly not overly interested in Classical sculpture and ceramics, but I am with Egyptian stuff and those are the nearest Phaoronic objects to me. I live at the mouth of Topanga Canyon and can zip over the hill to the Getty in about 20 minutes. -See you there!
Cheers,
Bambi B
I too have been very bothered by the wrappers and coughs and program rattling (for lack of a better term) but I find them a lot less intrusive since switching my seats to the front row of the Orchestra West and I also think that during the last half of last season and the one concert I've seen so far this season there was far less of that type of noise then in the past.I used to imagine the day when they would finally either write in the program (in bold 24 point type) or announce before the concert master comes out that people need to be particularly aware of the effect those things can have on ones fellow concert goers.
I am very happy that it's gotten (or at least seems to have gotten) better.
"Except for the point, the still point, there would be no dance, and there is only the dance. " T.S. Eliot
That's certainly not true for everybody. I'm 6'1" with pretty broad shoulders, have probably been 65-70 times since it opened and I have no problem sitting very comfortably in all but one section (the Terrace section -- and that's perfectly tolerable). I don't know if this is related to being comfortable but I also have no problem sitting still for two hours.I find the sound to occasionaly tilt towards the bright side a touch but mostly it's a visceral aural experience for me with great detail, nuance, balance and tone. And that's not because I'm somehow afraid of saying otherwise (nor is it for the many other people I know who feel similarly).
I find the Orchestra East and West seats, from the stage edge out and from rows A-E to have the best sound -- that's we're my subscription seats are now.
Check it out. I think you'll like it.
I also think the hall itself is one of the most beautiful I've ever been in. I wouldn;t know where to start in comparing it sound wise to the Concertgebouw but I've thoroughly enjoyed seeing and hearing concerts in both places.
"Except for the point, the still point, there would be no dance, and there is only the dance. " T.S. Eliot
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