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In Reply to: Modernizing film sound posted by rico on January 2, 2007 at 14:09:18:
For instance, most classic silent films are being reissued with orchestral 5.1 surround soundtracks; the bigger issues are whether a silent film should be released with music that isn't contemporaneous to the film and whether the music sounds appropriate to what is on the screen.>>> "But I got to wondering. What if they were to "suroundize" older classics like "The Day the Earth Stood Still" or (getting to the heart of the matter) "It happened One Night" or "Casablanca" or (dare he say it?) "Citizen Kane"?" <<<
30's, 40's & 50's sound films with soundtracks are an "iffy" proposition. Music and certain rechanneled effects 'might' be okay for surround enhancement under a few unusual circumstances and dependent upon the film (it is reasonable, for instance, to speculate that SF films such as Day the Earth Stood Still, This Island Earth, War of The Worlds, Forbidden Planet, etc., 'might' benefit from a surround sountrack, especially if the original mono or stereo soundtrack recorded with the original is included as an alternative, for comparisons sake).
The bottom line: It boils down to whether the implimentation draws too much attention to itself; I'm refering to music and effects as opposed to dailogue (which shouldn't be tampered with). Note: I can even imagine rare circumstances where colorization might be deemed okay for ALTERNATIVE versions of B films, serials and action pictures, but the jury is still out on that one because few folks, if any, want to see phony color finding it's way into single-inventory re-releases of classic films.
AuPh
Follow Ups:
You bring up some interesting points. I think that modern sound engineers understand the need for respect and subtlety, which they have learned painfully ever since the origianl "Ben Hur" soundtrack mixed a cow mooing from the rear in the manger sequence and test audiences all turned around away from the film. Since very little except ambiant noise is mixed in the rear channels anyway I think that judicious use of 5.1 could be successful, especailly in the SF films you cite and anly (as you also say) if the original soundtrack was provided for purisits.BTW, I enjoy the directional dialog of early stereo films like "The Fly".
Its just one opinion, but I've always found rear channel sound a distraction and a gimmick in movies and music. I don't think the human brain does well when the ear inputs are spatially in conflict with what the eyes' see.
Are you sure you have the rear channels set at equal volume to the mains by meter? many people run the rears too loud and also the sub too loud. Very little is mixed in the rear channels and you should NEVER notice them except for the beiginnigs of a fly over or some other effect the film makers specifically intend. Surrounmd adds anbience only and you should only notice it by its absense when you collapse the sound stage down to plain stereo.
I have two-channel at home. I only hear multichannel at the theater or when visiting someone with it. Never cared for the effect. Deafening and distracting audio has effectively driven me out of theaters.
That's incompetent or stupid projectionists or theatehr owners, not surround sound per se. Many theaters play everything too loud, especielly trailers.Good surround adds to a movie, that's why there are three competing formats (Dolby, DTS, SDDS) and that's why film makrs use it. Since you have a pre 1980s' i.e., stereo) system for watching movies at home, are you really giving home theater surround a chance? Have you hear a properly set up home theater system showing a non car chase non explosion surround movie?
Them's fightin' words. Sorry, Rico, I'll stick with (very) high quality two-channel. Its what comes out of the speakers, not how many places it comes out...!
I ahve been an audiophile for 51 years and ,like you, stuck with stereo and analog for a long time into the surround and then the digital eras. But surround sound for films has been with us since 1977, 30 years now, and I think it is high time that the luddites get on board and give adequately presented surround sound for both movies and music a chance.I have done extensive A/B-ing of pure stereo material and the same material on the superb Dolby Pro Logic II Music codec (developed for Dolby Labs by famed surround guru Jim Fosgate) and I now listen to all lps, tapes, laserdiscs, FM, and stereo only DVDs in this format. it has brought new life to my entire collections. It provides exactly what hi fi/stereo buffs have been seeking for years: the gestalt of the live performance, a musicality, presense (in the good sens of that overused word), warmth (ditto) and what is for me the ultinate in music sound, timbre. It also provides a truer sense of the acoustic space of the recording venue (I know, this CANNOT be true of movie sound, which has been equalized to the limit)
As for the disctrete codecs,Dolby Digital and DTS, these add an involvment and aid in the important suspension of disbelief, just as stereo did over mono.
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