Films/DVD Asylum

• I agree with you about Owen's transformation; that's another reason for rating the film as highly as I did. - Audiophilander 17:23:38 01/11/07 (4)
  In Reply to: It's not about plot. Or McGuffins. posted by Harmonia on January 11, 2007 at 14:33:07:

  > > > "Cuaron isn't gonna waste vaulable screen time with needless exposition. His scifi inspiration is Tarkovsky, not Spielberg." < < <

  Harmonia, that isn't a good selling point (at least with me) as I readily admit to loathing Tarkovsky's Solaris. Furthermore, I only appreciate about 50% of Spielberg's work; generally I think he's a sloppy filmmaker. For instance, I can't stand ET, but absolutely love AI; I consider Temple of Doom silly, but find Raiders of the Lost Ark rousing entertainment; I revile Hook, but revere Always; I'm impressed with Close Encounters, but unmoved by Minority report; I find Catch Me if You Can & 1941 amusing, but conversely find Empire of the Sun & Amistad dull; I see Schindler's List as a tightly filmed, personal work that was excellently cast, but consider War of The Worlds as impersonal, manipulative and poorly cast, and so on and so forth).

  Now I will say that my wife likes Children of Men even more than I do, but neither of us like Solaris, so go figure.

  > > > "For people who want tons of explanation and all loose ends neatly tied up - Cuaron ain't your man. He trusts the intelligence of his audience and leaves things up to us to interpret or complete." < < <

  I don't gauge a film by either it's symbolism or how much information the Director & screenwriters chose to share with the viewing public; it isn't about the intellect of the viewer either (if I want mindless entertainment and chases I'll go watch a Republic serial). For me, it's whether I feel the story being told is cohesive (finished) and agree or disagree with the message that's conveyed.

  > > > "Cuaron's not interested in why women can't carry babies any more. (There was no explanation offered in the film, BTW.) He's interested in "what's going on now", set in the "what if" to provide more himself narrative freedom. The infertility is just the premise to get things rolling and explore issues in our present. Cuaron would rather ask questions than provide answers - which is fine by me." < < <

  Which is fine by me as well, as far as it goes, but sometimes there needs to be more than just a premise even if the solutions are left up to the audience. One can't explore solutions without knowing something about the causes. OTOH, as a chase film with superb action sequences, it's very good.

  Again, my caveats aside, this film shouldn't be considered less successful on it's own merits, but IMO cause and effect relationships are important structures for any great SF film. In that regard, at least for me, Children of Men remains a very good film as opposed to a masterpiece of great cinema.

  Cheers,
  AuPh
  
  

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  • "One can't explore solutions without knowing something about the causes." - sjb 17:48:17 01/11/07 (3)
    In Reply to: I agree with you about Owen's transformation; that's another reason for rating the film as highly as I did. posted by Audiophilander on January 11, 2007 at 17:23:38:

    Nobody in the film was exploring solutions. They were viewing the pregnancy and baby as a miracle of sorts and a symbol of hope and were simply trying to ensure their safety. It was a very, in the moment, movie. And I mean that in the best way.
    

    Don't piss on my shoe and tell me it's raining.
    
    

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    • "Nobody in the film was exploring solutions." - Arguably, that may be one of the film's problems, but ... - Audiophilander 23:48:10 01/11/07 (2)
      In Reply to: "One can't explore solutions without knowing something about the causes." posted by sjb on January 11, 2007 at 17:48:17:

      ...we weren't discussing solutions in the context of what the characters were actually doing on the screen, but rather discussing water-cooler opinions about possible solutions.

      Note: My remark ("...there needs to be more than just a premise even if the solutions are left up to the audience") was in response to Harmonia's comment about the Director, Cuaron ("The infertility is just the premise to get things rolling and explore issues in our present. Cuaron would rather ask questions than provide answers"). No offense, but you might read a little more closely before posting criticisms.

      Those in pursuit treated the coming child as some sort of miracle rather than seeking a scientific rationale for it; it stretched credulity for me as did her narrow escape while in labor. Furthermore, one child born as a fluke (regardless of whether one is inclined or disinclined toward acceptance of religious allegories), would not be capable of saving the aging human race unless there were a major scientific discovery, period.

      > > > "They were viewing the pregnancy and baby as a miracle of sorts and a symbol of hope and were simply trying to ensure their safety." < < <

      Sorry, but I'm not a big fan of unresolved symbolism when it's the main theme of the film. Miracles work for a moving scene, but to leave key elements either unresolved or, worse yet, unaddressed is the most egregious form of Deus-Ex-Machina for a Director or writer, IMO. I don't like being spoon fed, but I don't like being starved either! ;^)

      SPOILER-MAKER~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      So, mother & child sail off into the fog-set on a fishing trauler along with the only possible scientific solution for mankind's survival. Clive Owen's dies because he couldn't procure a BMW and get her there quick enough to set sail himself. So, I guess the rest of the human race dies off, right? Some symbol of hope! Ah yes, the symbolism: as far as the human race is concerned, that ship sailed! Well, there's your happy ending, folks; time to go drain the lizard and leave the theater with a smile on your face. FINI! :o)

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      As I've stated time and again, I like this film, but I'm trying to be objective about it and avoid all of the impassioned trimmings other's ascribe to the Director's accomplishment. Children of Men is a very fine film, but gauged against other great dystopian films I can't personally bestow upon it classic status. In fact, until I've seen Pans Labyrinth, I can only rank it AMONG the best films of 2006.

      Cheers,
      AuPh
      
      

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      • The film was speaking more to the heart and emotions than the mind per se. - sjb 09:05:57 01/12/07 (1)
        In Reply to: "Nobody in the film was exploring solutions." - Arguably, that may be one of the film's problems, but ... posted by Audiophilander on January 11, 2007 at 23:48:10:

        It's a film about transformation and hope. Maybe it speaks most loudly to those who inherently conneect to those themes.

        If one needs "scientific" reasons for the conditions at the beginning of the movie and the hope at the end then one is bound to be disappointed (even if only a little).
        

        Don't piss on my shoe and tell me it's raining.
        
        

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        • Excellent point. - Audiophilander 15:03:06 01/12/07 (0)
          In Reply to: The film was speaking more to the heart and emotions than the mind per se. posted by sjb on January 12, 2007 at 09:05:57:

          > > > "It's a film about transformation and hope. Maybe it speaks most loudly to those who inherently conneect to those themes. --- If one needs "scientific" reasons for the conditions at the beginning of the movie and the hope at the end then one is bound to be disappointed (even if only a little)." < < <

          Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I try to employ both heart & mind when watching films that profess depth, especially when it translates into Oscar buzz. Not being especially enamored of the slice-of-life school of filmmaking Cuaron's efforts may be lost on me, but I suspect it has more to do with my appreciation of films that aren't totally open ended. Also, I like to be surprised in movies; in my opinion there were very few surprises plot-wise in CoM. It still merits high marks for those scenes which worked flawlessly well, for the superb acting and it's direction.

          AuPh

          
          
          

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