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In Reply to: I see you still do not understand posted by jamesgarvin on January 17, 2007 at 11:24:01:
I had a hard day today, james... maybe you wanna state your point clearly? What was wrong with tin's post?
Follow Ups:
I reviewed my notes on the last 242 films I have watched, 50 of which were foreign films. I agree that as a general rule, they do not use music to heighten suspense, actors act and appear more "normal", etc. I disagreed that those things necessarily make for a better film. I agree that I like a greater percentage of foreign films I see to domestic films I see. The conclusion Tin draws is that foreign films are therefore better. Neither he, nor anyone domiciled in the U.S. cannot drawn that conclusion because there is undoubtedly many bad foreign films that never make it here, and unless one is exposed to the junk in Europe, for example, as they are here to the junk here, one cannot conclude that foreign films are better than those made in Hollywood.I do not eat the same foods everyday, and doubt I could watch the same types of films everyday. Movie such as Pirates of the Caribbean and, say, Seaside, a French film I recently watched, satisfies different hungers. You or Tin may not have the hunger or desire to see Pirates, but that does not make it any less of a film. Or Seaside any more or less of a film. I would not expect the same acting techniques employed from one to the other, or the same musical score, anymore than I would expect Johnny Depp to act the same in another film, or a person in real life to act the same when walking down the street as they would if they saw their child in a burning building. Essentially, Tin concludes that because Seaside may have one set of attributes, it is therefore superior. When I watched Seaside, I preferred it. When I watched Pirates, I preferred it.
I am not sure calling people who are simply looking to be entertained morons, or worse, advances the debate. As someone who enjoys all types of films, of those fifty films, having seen films from Japan, China, Germany, Denmark, Thailand, Iran, Australia, Great Britain, Italy, South Korea, Brazil, Sweden, Israel, Netherlands, France, Spain, Czechoslovakia, Venezuela, and South Africa, each offers something of value, and are not bad, or good, merely because of their country of origin. Likewise, I believe that it is not fair to dismiss films from Hollywood, merely because they are from Hollywood, and merely because they may be made for no other purpose than to provide escapist entertainment.
Sort of like a die hard tube amplifier reviewer making his or her monthly disparaging solid state amplifier comments, then calling you and asking you to send a solid state amp his way for review. My guess is you would probably defer. I am not sure how dismissing Hollywood films out of hand is any different.
Your first paragraph simply states the viewpoint, not fact, which is fine with me. How does one make a judgement which country produces higher percentage of good films? Strictly speaking that is impossible. We all do it by sense, by feel. For instance, every time I go to Russia I sample their films. Much of them are pure trash, yet my gut feel, not based in any hard numbers, is telling me the percentage of those deserving my attention is higher than in the US.Patrick has good handle on French and German crap, living there, so you might want to ask his impression... he is a very objective guy.
Notice, none of us really has a dog in that fight - none of us stands to gain anything from our conclusions, we all just state as we see it, including you.
When I watch films I do not watch a Hollywood film, a French one... it is later, when I think about it, I put it in a bin. I do see a very large number of US films, so I am quite aware of what's going on here. The Pirates satisfied my hunger for killing two hours, I'll be frank with you. Except for the scenes in the sword shop the rest was a big snoozer for me, but I will give you that - something might be wrong with me, not the movie.
I see you took my morons statement extremely personally... I would need to re-read it again, but surely what I mean by those were the mindless hordes of idiots watching the horrible, horrible films and liking them, not someone like you... not that I need to earn your love, really. I do watch many such films on my cable, just to know what's happening there, and I stand by my word - only morons would go and pay for many of them. And I actually have enjoyed many Hollywood movies - they are always extremely professionally made and many serve as good fun viewing. I usually not post on them because I think this forum should be mostly about a bit more unusual, unique, interesting, funny. I must have seen Die Hard ten times or more, but I see no reason to post on it.
But we are making circles producing no new ideas. It interests me, however, to dig deeper into your rather inriguing statement about the adultorous French films. I would like to know what caused you to make that statement.
In general, it is not the nature of event itself that we should find objectionable, but rather the gratuitous nature of its employment. Adultery - or I would rather call it love affairs, falling in love, etc. - is a part of our lives. It is something that always produces strong emotions. And when I mentally look at many French films that I love, it doesn't seem to be present there in any gratuitous form.
However, the fact primitive sex and violence do figure very prominently in American films hardly needs any proof, and yet you let it slide for some reason.
I would submit to you that your children are hurt much harder by watching the endless parade of idiots and deviants outdoing each other in mutilation and brutal sex than by observing Depardieu falling in love with his neighbor.
Are you sure you have your priorities in right places?
"However, the fact primitive sex and violence do figure very prominently in American films hardly needs any proof, and yet you let it slide for some reason."Not at all. Had the topic been sex in American cinema, my rants would have been longer. I'll save you the time of a search. In another thread, moons ago, I posted that I felt that Foreign films are much more mature relative to sex than American films. For example, I cannot recall seeing what I would call gratuitous sex or nudity in a Foreign film. I recall a French film, the name escapes me, which was entirely about the filming of a sex scene in a movie. The film was very contemplative of the subject, not made to stimulate the audience. I shudder to think what that movie would have been had it come from Hollywood. Foreign films I have seen generally treat sex with more maturity than American films.
"I would submit to you that your children are hurt much harder by watching the endless parade of idiots and deviants outdoing each other in mutilation and brutal sex than by observing Depardieu falling in love with his neighbor."
I would never let my kids watch those films. My original point was if not for Hollywood and it's willingness to release films like Toy Story, Nemo, et al., then my son and I would not watch films together. I think there is value in that, regardless of the ultimate merit of the film itself. As I wrote in another thread, I recently watched Children of Heaven, a subtitled Iranian film. As I was watching, he came down to the basement to play, stopped in front of the television and watched with me. He cannot read subtitles. But the concept of watching kids agonize over shoes, together with the beautiful imagery, drew him to the film. I think that Children of Heaven is probably, on a critical level, better than any children's film coming from Hollywood. But those films are few and far between, and I thank Hollywood for producing those types of films.
Adultery in French films. Perhaps an overstatement. What I have noticed is that adultery seems to be treated as a lifestyle choice, rather than potentially destroying a family, particularly with kids involved. That is fine for me. I know better, so I can get past that issue and enjoy the film. But my kids are still learning. Which is why they do not see the litany of violence and sex that comes from Hollywood.
***Not at all. Had the topic been sex in American cinema, my rants would have been longer. I'll save you the time of a search. In another thread, moons ago, I posted that I felt that Foreign films are much more mature relative to sex than American films. For example, I cannot recall seeing what I would call gratuitous sex or nudity in a Foreign film. I recall a French film, the name escapes me, which was entirely about the filming of a sex scene in a movie. The film was very contemplative of the subject, not made to stimulate the audience. I shudder to think what that movie would have been had it come from Hollywood. Foreign films I have seen generally treat sex with more maturity than American films.You have my strong agreement here. But your last paragraph is a dream. It sounds like your child is still quite young, but believe me (or don't, if you wish) that as he gets older, it will be more and more difficult to control his access - after all at school there will be endless discussions of the latest crap chidren watched, and he will resent being an outsider... plus at all those sleep-over parties... only Devil himself knows what kids do there. Some watch porn and do oral sex - there was that story about very young kids having such parties.
Bottom line - sooner or later you WILL have to let him come in touch with the ugly cesspool reality.
"Bottom line - sooner or later you WILL have to let him come in touch with the ugly cesspool reality."No doubt. I only want a crack at him first before "they" do.
It is a hard one. I know.. we went down that path. Our daughter read at 3, and at 4 she read serious adult books. For long time her TV time was controlled and we did our best to make her love classical culture, good literature, music, etc.But I am telling ya... at some point it all just falls apart. The allure of pop culture and peer pressure are things you can't really fight. So she still has some of what we gave her, but she definitely went in her own direction.
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