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My favorite critic Duncan Shepherd has done it again: A finely-crafted meditation on this topic. "Video turns the film buff soft." "It's the stockpile of videos that paradoxically takes the hunger and the urgency out of film education." "Video makes a movie more missable, more postponable."GO! NOW!
clark
Follow Ups:
lets look at this from my point of view for a sec.
when my movie theatre starts charging resonable rates (ie: currently $10.50 per adult, plus any concessions ), then movies will start to look attractive again.
no philosophy here, just a cheap-ass who'd rather spend $5 bucks to rent the DVD or $20 to buy it and watch it over and over!!!!
the math in my area is pretty easy to do.
Dman
Dman,I've got the same disease. How many times do you find yourself scanning the paper to see what films are on at what times etc, and end up mumbling "Hmmm, My Best Friend's Wedding Singer's Bride's Wedding Planner...wait for the video, Hmmm, Dude, Where's My Exit Wounds?..wait for the video,etc. etc.
A new film has to have pretty high recommendations from a friend, or a reviewer you trust before it's worth the expense and aggravation that an outing to the cinema entails thses days. It's not that it's so expensive, but the resentment you feel at paying for the privelege of seeing a "dud" and having to put up with audiences who do not know how to behave in public places is very bad value.
Which means you often end up missing movies which may have been worth seeing at the cinema.
An imagined past that never existed.Where do we begin with this foolishness and misplaced nostalgia?
How 'bout with the idea that viewing a movie in a theater full of strangers is a social experience?
If we accept that proposition, we are truly in a parallel universe where parallel lines do converge.
In my dimly remember collegiate past, I recall seeing a number of art films from the Italian greats of the time-- Visconti, Fellini, etc. at university theaters. Also in my club there were a couple of guys who were real film connoisseurs. They persuaded me, as the social chairman, to appropriate some of the party and beer budget to pay for rental of these films (not videos; 16 mm films). I can't remember where we got the projector and screen. So we watched a few of them, the only one of which I can remember was King and Country. Also, independent TV stations, desparate for programming and short of cash, ran Bogie films and the like.
But we talked about films only because there was a pre-formed group that was interested in the subject. It isn't like we picked up five strangers at the theater while watching "Juliet of the Spirits" for the 5th time and an earnest discussion of Howard Hawks'directorial style ensued.
Video puts this stuff in reach of all of us, and at our convenience. And, if I were a single college kid, we'd gather around the biggest and best TV set and watch and discuss. I don't do that anymore; instead I introduce my kids to the "originals" of some films that have been inferiorly remade, such as "Sabrina" Occasionally, when alone for a weekend, I have been known to have succumbed to some total lunacy, like declaring a "WW2 submarine movie night." I'll scoop up "Das Boot", "Run Silent, Run Deep" "The Enemy Below" and, if I can find it, Ronald Reagan's "Hellcats of the Navy." After all that, I've got to take an 1/2 hour shower; I reek of salt water and diesel fuel.
If this is the best that this guy writes, I gotta say, Clark, you and I have pretty divergent tastes. I thought people had sense in San Diego, like our beloved webmaster, Rod M.
Bruce wrote:"How 'bout with the idea that viewing a movie in a theater full of strangers is a social experience?
If we accept that proposition, we are truly in a parallel universe where parallel lines do converge."Wow Bruce, we DO live in parallel universes. I'm a film buff (Film School graduate, ack!) and my experience of movie going is so "social" that, well, I just can't possibly see what type of valid point you might be trying to make.
As I wrote lower in this thread, the "shared experience" of seeing a film with a large group - my friends and the rest of the theater audience - is a very valuable element of movie
going for me. There is nothing drier than seeing a comedy (even a funny one) in an empty theater. And horror movies? Nothing like being one of hundreds of people clawing their arm-rest - watching girls burying their face in their boyfriend's shoulder. I'll never forget seeing Jaws the first time, when Ben Gardner's head popped out of the boat hole. The entire audience jumped out of their seats and landed with a thud, followed by laughter at each other's reactions. My fondest memories of many films start before even entering the theater. I saw countless big films on their first day, and there was nothing so fun as being in a huge line-up full of film nuts, babbling away, sharing the anticipation with each other.
The buzz in the theater before the first Star Wars sequel? Fuggedaboutit! It was Awesome! How's about the sneak preview of ET? Not one of my favorite movies but an absolutely incredible audience experience - especially at the end with my girlfriend bawling on one side, and on the other a woman I didn't know gripping my shoulder, jumping up and down cheering with tears streaming along her cheeks.Movie-going not really a social experience? Speak for yourself, I guess.
Rich H.
I guess when you're in graduate school, every thing is a social experience -- even going to the bathroom.But, seriously, movie viewing can be a social experience -- with people with whom you have common connections -- fellow students, friends, family, etc. But what you see on the screen is exactly the same whether the theater is empty or filled with the entire USC and UCLA graduate film school faculty and student population. The nature of the experience can change, of course, depending upon with whom you view the film.
As to your comments about experiencing a comedy, I give you that point -- what do you think the laugh track on comedy TV shows is for? OTOH, and speaking personally, watching "American Pie" with a room full of teenagers and then watching it with one other person, not a teenager, the film did not seem all that funny the second time.
But the change is all in your perception of the event, not the event itself. That's not the case with a live performance of music or drama.
***Movie-going not really a social experience? Speak for yourself, I guess.I suppose we ALL speak for ourselves. I suppose that is given.
So you like to see the others around you scream. Many of us don't.
I don't like going to the theater because I enjoy the crowd, far from it. My best experiences have been in an empty theater with just someone I care about. I don't think this is because the Jaws or Star Wars are not my kind of movies - I simply think many things in life, movies, good books, etc, should be digested privately. Then discussed, perhaps. But I really don't care bins what that slob in the next seat thinks about the Persona, I am watching it for myself. And if the slob is not there, so the better.
I would still go to the theater if it was not too crowded. I love large screen, even though I can get one at home. But I sure as Hell don't miss the audience. At Ritz you most of the time sit in a very small company - to have perhaps ten people in the room is not unusual - and I LOVE that.
I also realize that this discussion was pointless. With very few notable exceptions (that lucky dog Doug may be one) we do NOT have choice. There is no theater that shows most of the films I want to see aroung here, so I don't lament that fact, I simply rent.
But I defer to c1ferrari"s opinion below.Oh BTW would you further state that attending a *music concert* with "a theater full of strangers" is also not a social experience? Would you even further argue that listening to records at home, at our "convenience", "puts [us] in reach" of the concert experience?
clark
PS I very often engage strangers in conversation after movies, and while I haven't formed any friendships, that was not the purpose. Out in public I'm a very social animal and people seem to enjoy that sociability. I know I do!
Umm, Clark. If I have a preformed group to attend either a concert, a play or a movie, I can just as easily have that same group watch a video (with a suitably good HT setup) or listen to some recorded music and we can all talk about it, drink wine and pretend like it was when we were in college 30 years ago. I doubt seriously that attending any of these live events is going to result in spontaneous social interaction with otherwise unknown to me attendees. (I admit the case was different with rock concerts and the like 30 years ago.)The reason to attend a live concert -- excluding rock -- is that the sound is way better, and there is the possiblity of something special happening when a good performer and an appreciative audience feed off each other. If one is lucky, the best one can do with a recording is if the recording happened to have captured one of those "magic" performances e.g. Judy Garland at Carnegie Hall; BB King in Cook County Jail.
The reason to attend a stage play is similar; plus the fact that a stage play is a different experience than a film.
The only reason to attend a movie, rather than watch a video, as far as I'm concerned is if the movie requires a theatrically-sized screen to achieve its effect (e.g. the "Star Wars" flics). On the other hand, I believe that "The Maltese Falcon" would gain absolutely nothing by being enlarged to fill all 170 degrees of a person's field of vision. Other than that, with a good DVD source, a good HD progressive scan 16x9 monitor of 40 inches or larger with a good line doubler, I see absolutely no reason to go to a movie theater and many reasons not to -- you can start the thing at your convenience, the seats at home are more comfortable, the sound is apt to be better at home, and you can stop the movie to refill your popcorn bag.
Now all I need is a room to hold all that stuff and about ten or 15 kilobucks to buy it.
Why pick that B&W film, of all there are to choose from ?The Maltese Falcon is glorious on the big screen, Huston held nothing back in this wonderful noir masterpiece. It glows on the silvered screen with all the magic it did the first time I saw it. If there is one thing HT cannot do, it is to capture the depth on screen that a well shot B&W film has.
People treat the cinema like their own lounge rooms these days. They talk, munch, giggle, belch, make sucking noises from 4 gallon Coke buckets- one day there will be a tragic case of "Cinema Rage" during a screening of The Maltese Falcon.
Umm, well, I guess you and I are looking at different things. To be honest, I'm not much of a connoiseur of B&W image quality in movies; although as a still photographer for 35 years, I much prefer to work in B&W. Certainly, I agree with you that film will render a much better gray scale than a transfer to video. It's just that I never paid much attention to that.The reason I selected "Falcon" as an example, is that the movie has an intimate, close -- almost claustrophobic -- quality. A reduction in screen and image size does not violence to that, IMHO. By contrast, any number of B&W westerns, for example, would suffer from image size reduction. Part of the motif that needs to be allowed to work is the "big sky" feeling. You need a big picture to convey that.
Much more recently, I saw "Crouching Tiger" in the theater and was completely entranced. I'm pretty sure it would suffer when it's reduced to video-sized screen.
The home environment is as easily disturbed as the theatre, often moreso. And its defenders utterly ignore the indisputable fact that film's creators *intended* and *imagined* it to be seen on a large screen.clark
...last time I went to see the Falcon, the audio was out of phase. So I left.At least at home I can change the phase.
.
One thing not explicitly discussed is the intrinsic qualities to a "theater" experience that involve more than the images, but instead teh audience interaction with the work & one another.
To some degree this is lost when watching movies at home, but in my opinion the modern movie audiences (either with constant shushing or those that do speak making idiotic comments) so not get the "theater" experience of 20 or especially 50-80 years ago anyway.
So, in fact, watching a movie in your living room with friends may be more "cinematic" in the old-timer movie sense than sitting in the Lowes.On another note, he says
"And except to say, too, because it says so much about the evolution of movies, that ever since the advent of video there have been no "movements," no schools, no groups,however many random good movies there might have been, to compete for attention against the likes of German Expressionism or Italian Neo-Realism or the French New Wave. "I do not completely agree with this. The reason for the lack of movement may jsut be in this day & age the medium and our society are evolving so quickly that "movements" are now replaced with "moments". They seem less definable because they are more ephemeral.
Further, I would hope his arguments are geared specifically to the Art House crowd, because most normal people I know under 40 have never heard of Neo-REalism or watched Godard, but they know exactly who Adam Sandler is. In my mind the French New Wave has failed to produce a picture that competes with "HAppy Gilmore" in terms of public recognition or admiration.dg
May I forward them to Duncan? (He's not on-line.)clark
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Clark, I took a film class from Duncan at UCSD. I enjoyed the course immensely and have frequently delighted in his splendidly composed reviews! -Sam
The author seems to be looking at the past through rose-colored glasses and seems to detest the idea of convenience and selection that we have today. Does that ruin appreciation of film? I don't think so. I see more films at theaters than almost anyone I know and I certainly enjoy the conveniences we have today.With every hobby/pasttime or whatever we always tend to look at the past as being the "golden" years. But if you notice, it's always in the past. One day we'll look at what's happening today and reflect on it as another golden time.
Thinking like that is usually a bad rut for people since it tends to make them live in the past. Undoubtedly there's still people pissed off that stereo came into vogue.
Doug Schneider
SoundStage!
You bet! Hell I'm even PO'ed at LPs! But I do not *live* in the past, I simply try to serve the past as best I can. However, just try to get young guys interested in 78s these days!And that's like theatrical film exhibition, nearly a relic in the "art" field. It's sad, but again I do try to do my bit to save it by attending whenever anything good is on display. And face it, some of the best are still not in home release and never will be, but if video manages to kill the art houses... well...
Finally I always like to say, since 1986 I have been the only boy with a VCR who's never rented a tape! Nor, with one exception, when I was trapped, do I view them on TV. Films are created for the theatre and I shall continue to watch them there.
clark, feeling particularly pure today
***With every hobby/pasttime or whatever we always tend to look at the past as being the "golden" years. But if you notice, it's always in the past. One day we'll look at what's happening today and reflect on it as another golden time.That is good observation and one I completely agree with.
Similar discussions take place everywhere, indeed, with the perhaps most notable example of the JGH's insistance that in audio "today is better" - my philosophy exactly.
Yes, twenty five years ago you could see more good movies at the theaters, but the sheer volume of what is availabe today on tape and DVD is staggering. And I simply love that fact.
As well....the volume at good movies at the theaters is great too.About 4 blocks away from me is an "art-house" type theater. They run current release small films, but also, they specialize in all kinds of films from days gone by. With at least 2 movies, 7 days a week (every showing is a different one), it's not hard to watch a good film here.
Doug Schneider
...how much I envy you. 4 blocks? Man, I could crawl there with my back broken and my legs shot through...Most of us of course don't live in such luxury... How is the audience there - enough to keep it in business?
The audience is fantastic. In fact, it sometimes shocks me how many people will show up for a film.The theater is a real success story and they do their best to offer diverse films and make them a good deal. For example, on Monday through Wednesday they showed the Bleu, Blanc and Rouge trilogy. Show up each night at 9:15 and pay $10 for the whole thing.
Films get shown there from around the worlds and on average I would say they get audiences of 200-300 for anything of reasonable quality. The entire theater seats about 1000 I'd say. Certainly this pales in comparison to the regular theaters, but they do this night after night since they constantly vary their schedule.
Doug
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Victor, reporting live from Wilmington DE, the chemical capital of the world......or so they say...
We all have our pride.
***"It's the stockpile of videos that paradoxically takes the hunger and the urgency out of film education."Exactly the opposite happens to me. When I see all those unseen titles around me I get too excited, and I get too many to carry home. My problem is not finding enough that I would like to see.
It is like going to the SPCA - you just want to take EVERY dog and cat home with you.
After all - why be so concerned with the Star Wars culture around us? What is so wrong with doing what YOU would love to be doing? Read that Kafka and watch that Potemkin...
Yes, I khow, I know, the burning desire to share... to discuss... to enjoy it in a company of good friends and co-hobbyists...
Sometimes that gets me too. Nice to have a wife, or a dog at least, who shares your interests...
Tired of being a long woolf, Clark?
Don't you mean a lone woof?Your response is that of a man obsessed by the need to see it all. Indeed, videos satisfy your appetites. But the writer's point was something else, that there is no longer a sense of Occasion about movies that would lead younger people into becoming film buffs in the first place.
Plus one of the great experiences in life is to leave a movie theater with a friend or friends and talk about what you've all just seen, sometimes at great length! I have never seen a video engender such enthusiasm.
clark
Clark,I'm in "emotional agreement" with what you and Mr. Shepherd posit about the film experience. Seeing a film in the theater, the "sense of occasion," the big screen, the social experience; for me it is THE RIGHT WAY TO SEE A FILM.
But...sigh. Not everyone feels this way. A pal of mine still likes to see films in theaters but the building must be as empty of human life as possible (3:00 afternoon weekday showings etc.) lest he be bothered by someone else. Creeps me out - we stopped going to films together.
For me, the more packed the theater the better! Nothing like standing in a line up first day for an eagerly anticipated film. The rush you feel rippling through an audience when the film begins. My fondest film memories almost always include images of me and my friends in a movie line-up for a premier, communing with other eager fim-nuts. Movie going isn't a "real" social event? Puh-leese.
I always feel mildly disturbed when I hear people say "I'd rather watch films alone at home - no crowds to bother me." Then others who feel the same may chime in, rolling their eyes "yes, the crowds of people...why let them bother you when you can watch the movie quietly at home." It just sounds so sad and misanthropic - trying to avoid contact with their fellow man. Some of my friends are like that, but whenever I do actually persuade them to get their butts out the door to a movie they always enjoy it. I never hear "Well, that sure sucked because I wasn't on my couch watching it at home."
But that's my "emotional" take on things. I do understand that there are some who truly do enjoy viewing movies at home more than at a movie theater.
Rich H.
Couldn't agree more! Thanks for a really interesting post.clark
***Your response is that of a man obsessed by the need to see it all. Indeed, videos satisfy your appetites.Alas, yes, as the life is getting shorter the realization that so much is still remaining untried is growing...
***But the writer's point was something else, that there is no longer a sense of Occasion about movies that would lead younger people into becoming film buffs in the first place."Young people"? You mean that "lost" Titanic generation that no one is going to miss?
Aren't we discussing the endless beauty of sailing onboard the Tea Clipper? Those were the days...
But what's gone is gone, Clark. Never mind those good movies, we are losing the 2-channel, for Pete's sake! You are crying over spilled wine at the Titanic dinner table.
***Plus one of the great experiences in life is to leave a movie theater with a friend or friends and talk about what you've all just seen, sometimes at great length! I have never seen a video engender such enthusiasm.
I DO have such friend, Clark - my wife. I have never been after large crowd of "friends" in the first place. We watch and we discuss, and we fight overs some of what we watch.
At some point the crowd begins to matter less and less, fuck it, and we stick to those who REALLY matter in out lives.
This is called getting wiser, or so I've heard.
I still recall the art movies theater opening in Wilmington many years ago. There were six or eight people in the room, Autumn Sonata was on the screen, and four of those six were wondering how on Earth they ended up in that misty room with no action on screen. The theater closed just few weeks after opening.
But I believe all this lamenting is largelly misplaced. In ANY field fine stuff is appreciated by a small minority, pens, shoes, arms, books... how many people read "Golden Ass"? Red October will do.
So in a nutshell I don't think there is anything NEW happening, more of the same old, same old...
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