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In Reply to: Your point was weak ... posted by Jimmy NYC on March 14, 2007 at 16:05:45:
Jimmy, while you and I may be educated, grounded, decent people who understand satire and understand the movie's real intentions, I assure you that 90% or more of the moviegoing public are complete morons. They do not care about the intentions of Sacha Baron Cohen or Larry Charles.Someone with anti-semitic views who sees that movie is not going to say, "gosh, I really liked how Borat satirically poked fun at Jew-haters". The sad truth is that many people who see the movie will actually connect with the bigots, not the attempt to ridicule bigots. And therein lies the danger and folly of a film this incendiary.
Someday you should venture outside New York City...maybe try watching Borat in a movie theater in the midwest or a different country altogether. And when the audience bellows and cheers and laughs during the scene where Borat throws wadded-up dollar bills to ward off the shape-shifting, evil Jews who have transformed themselves into cockroaches, ask yourselves what the audience is really connecting with. I felt uncomfortable watching this in Oakland, CA after a Taj Mahal concert.
You and I know the makers of the film don't intend to be taken literally. But that doesn't mean anything. It wouldn't surprise me a bit to learn that some people use clips from Borat for purposes that should make Larry Charles ashamed, assuming people who make that much money on a movie are capable of feeling ashamed.
Sometimes it's important to step outside your sphere, take a more global view and ask yourself if this kind of humor is really that entertaining, funny or effective to warrant mass distribution. Audiences in New York, DC, LA and the bay area are one thing. After that, you're dealing with an altogether different animal.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
Follow Ups:
Although I don't expect to change your viewpoint - I will say I'm glad my post inspired you to sit upright and type an interesting rebuttal. I enjoyed reading what you wrote.I digress when I point out that this kind of writing has been sorely lacking on the film asylum. Most posts on this page of late, (including this surrounding thread) are pompous, lazy and dismissive. Instead of sharing ideas in the context of the love for film- many authors seem more interested in expressing their egocentric images of themselves as superior & discriminating critics. This is done by ambiguous comments - such as "boring", "dumb" etc. that really don't amount to anything worthwhile or meaningful. It's just the pitter patter of nincompoops. Those kind of posts certainly don't inspire the exchange of ideas that ultimately teach us about each other.
I can assure you that despite the hand my moniker tips (NYC)., I've lived and traveled in more areas then you assume. Because of this diversity I am not limited to any one stereotype about color, creed or geographical heritage. Another belief I have is that great art does not compromise itself. Furthermore a great artist always raises the bar as high as possible without dumbing down for preconceived assumptions based on the audiences intellect. The artists concern should be about "what they need to say". I feel that many thought provoking and challenging political ideas are accomplished and realized in "Borat". He "lifts the rock" and we see what lives under it. He shows us America, with all it's ignorance and prejudice under a satirical magnifying glass that inspired belly-laughs (for me anyway) . I believe and I seriously doubt that his satirical presentation of anti-Semitism would reinforce and support the hatred of Jews **No matter where in the United States the film is viewed** We strongly disagree on this point-and I need not to undermine your credibility by making assumptions about YOU, to prove my point.
Would you be threatened by John Lennon's "Woman is the Nigger of the World" as a theme for misogynists? I hope not .
I'm also happy that the filmmakers associated with Borat made money- it was a brave undertaking. An unusual film and a breath of fresh air in the cookie cutter Hollywood system. I also point out that Martin Scorcese, Alfred Hithcock, Sydney Lumet, William Wyler, John Houston etc etc made money, making films. This doesn't taint their art in any way. Why hold it against Borat?
I would never join a club that was presumptuous enough about the mentality of small town folk, that they could assume the worst case scenario about their potential ignorance. The assumption that 90% of the public are morons is sad statement that expresses elitism, a lack of empathy, cynicism and in my opinion, a warped view of reality. This observation of yours proves that your glass isn't half-full, it's completely empty.
> > He shows us America, with all it's ignorance and prejudice < <
> > The assumption that 90% of the public are morons is sad statement < <Well, which is it? You have no problem with the idea that America full of ignorance and prejudice when you watch Borat, but when I come right out and make that point myself, you get on my case for it. You can't have it both ways. And as I alluded to earlier, this is bigger than America. The movie is distributed worldwide to countries where Christians and Jews are hated, and where racism and lack of education is worse than it is here. Look how blacks are portrayed, too. The only blacks shown in the movie are a bunch of gangsta types who teach borat to wear his pants pulled down to his knees. Great. Just what the African American community needed.
Look, this isn't about you and me. It's about whether film makers have any responsibility. I say yes, you seem to say no. Faranheit 9/11 was distributed in the middle east by Hezbollah as a terrorist recruitment tool. That's what happens when a film is made so irresponsibly that it takes little pieces of facts, ignores big pieces, and puts it all together in a way that is very harmful and one-sided and has all the subtlety of a sledgehammer.
I respect Larry Charles. I love his work on Seinfeld, Curb Your Enthusiasm and even Entourage. He's obviously immensely talented. I don't have much respect for SBCohen, but I can certainly understand why you appreciate him and think of his work as artistry. I don't, but again, my overarching point has nothing to do with you or me.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
C'mon J.I. - I think there is a big difference between saying 90% of the movie going public are morons and acknowledging prejudice in the USA.All that said - I'm going to run off ! Before I do I wanted to thank you for your ideas. I appreciated your views and your writing style.
All the best - "Jimmy NYC"
Ok, then what percentage of the public are morons? Your man borat seemed to find many of them without much trouble and I know you identify many of your fellow Americans as prejudiced dolts. So the disagreement between us is what--a matter of degrees, a few percentage points? Bottom line: when you see Borat in a theater and hear the bellows and laughter arround you, there's no way to be sure what the audience has really connected with.
-------------"I have found that if you love life, life will love you back." -Arthur Rubinstein (1887-1982)
I think I said something along these lines up above.But you said it first.
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