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In Reply to: definitely a homerotic tinge throughout the movie. nt posted by Duilawyer on April 7, 2007 at 01:27:15:
Funny thing, movies can have tons of T&A and it is considered normal but show a little male flesh and it's homoerotic. Kinda male-centric homophobic perspective don't ya think? The only substantial sex scene I remember was quite heterosexual. So was it the kissing concubines? Or to be fair, has every movie that used T&A been homoerotic as well from a woman's perspective? frankly, I think we were just equal oportunists when it came to offering sexual eye candy to the audience. The audiences had just grown acustomed to a complete imbalance born from a male-centric homophobic perspective in film making.
Follow Ups:
And it's not to do with the showing of them.
You could argue most actresses are still siliconed and teased, dieted amd exercised into just as ludicrous a shape as the guys in 300.
Pretty much takes any chance of reality out of the films before they start.
Look how Elizabeth Hurley was trimmed down.. well starved might some it up better, from that absolute ravishing look which seemed to give her instant celebrity at the opening of 4 Weddings until she had none of the original beauty left.
The concentration camp thinness of actresses whose only shape seems to come from the zeppelins attached to their chests.
The fixation on "perfection" and "beauty" is bewildering, but then perhaps the notion that people want to escape from their humdrum lives into a film is at the heart of it.
And as I don't want to start an entire political dissection of US culture, let's not start that one here... OK!
Perhaps this is the American Mythology.
I hope not.
"'I am the God-King,' said Xerxes, 'and I have the gold-encrusted Speedo and the encyclopedic knowledge of the lyrics of Guys and Dolls to prove it!'"and
"Fills a much-needed gap between gay porn and recruitment film."
I didn't really think it was all that homo-erotic but your statement "... but show a little male flesh and it's homoerotic" is - considering the fetishization of the Spartans' maleness and their look and costumes - a bit disingenuous.
The idea that the film-makers dressed them like they did (and had them get buffed up like they did) without having a sense of that potential is a little silly to me.
And, intentional or not Xerxes did come across like a big (literally and figuratively) queen. I don't know how anyone involved with the film wouldn't have noticed that immediately.
P.S. I enjoyed the movie. Rousing good fun.
Don't piss on my shoe and tell me it's raining.
Sounds like the volleyball game in Top Gun.
> I didn't really think it was all that homo-erotic but your statement "... but show a little male flesh and it's homoerotic" is - considering the fetishization of the Spartans' maleness and their look and costumes - a bit disingenuous.How on earth is it disingenuous? i don't see them as "fetishized." Funny I never heard anyone say that about the actual artwork by the Greeks themselves that inspired their look in the film. Why do you suppose that is?
> The idea that the film-makers dressed them like they did
As per frank Miller's designs.
> (and had them get buffed up like they did)
As one would find in just about any comic book.
> without having a sense of that potential is a little silly to me.
One thing we didn't do was worry about every weird interpretation audiences might have. If film makers worry about political correctness to that degree they ultimately put out plain vanilla forgetable films.
> And, intentional or not Xerxes did come across like a big (literally and figuratively) queen. I don't know how anyone involved with the film wouldn't have noticed that immediately.
I guess we just weren't carrying the same baggage us those who saw Xerxes as gay. I mean this is a movie that has been called gay and facist in the same sentence. Go figure.
"As per frank Miller's designs""As one would find in just about any comic book."
My point wasn't about where the look came from just it's surprising to me that in creating, filming, editing and presenting that look it wasn't anticipated that some people would see it as homo-erotic.
I'm not one of those people but it's (very) easy to see why it could be perceived that way.
And one needn't have any baggage to see Xerxes as queeny. The performance/presentation/voice manipulation kind of speaks for itself. Not saying it was intended but I mean... come on.
By the way... nice work on the film... it is a visual feast. I see you worked on the original Jackass. Do you know Lance Bangs and Spike J.? I do a lot of editing for each of them.
Don't piss on my shoe and tell me it's raining.
Not, however, any of my gay friends who saw it. Seems to me it's mostly str8 dudes who concern themselves with that dubious aspect.clark
> And one needn't have any baggage to see Xerxes as queeny. The performance/presentation/voice manipulation kind of speaks for itself. Not saying it was intended but I mean... come on."Queeny" is that the same as gay? We think we just disagree on this one. But hey, i'm a Bowie fan and never assumed he was gay by his theatrics. I think the baggage is there and comes with an either/or mind set. And perhaps we were quite naive in ignoring the fat that many people have such baggage. Well, no. I suppose we just didn't care. But no one I know at the time ever even raised an eyebrow. Maybe everyone was just more caught up in the transformation.
> By the way... nice work on the film... it is a visual feast.Thank you. Much appreciated.
> I see you worked on the original Jackass. Do you know Lance Bangs and Spike J.? I do a lot of editing for each of them.
I don't know them personally. I was on Jackass only for one weekend for the old age makeups. I never felt it warrented credit. I have worked far more extensively on other films without getting credit like the first Pirates of the Caribean movie. I feel like I sold my soul when I worked on Jackass. Truth be told, the movie cracked me up. A very very very guilty pleasure.
Do you think this film will be remembered in 6 months?
Here it's being seen as funny and almost certainly a candyfloss film that will be forgotten about.
And as for the abdominal showmen...
Does the film really have "ninjas" in it as reviews here have mentioned along with giants and rhinos, for which there seems no historical data?
If it's just a story I wonder why it was necessary to start with a real point in history.
Paul Cartledge, who wrote Thermopylae: The Battle That Changed The World and who was hired as a consultant has said he was only asked one thing. He said the name was spoken as LeonEEdas but the filmmakers went with LeonEYEdas anyway.
Hell yes. I think it will be one of the icons of this generation of films. Remember the critics are mixed onthis film. about 60% pro 40% con. Raiders of the lost ark, Bladerunner, The Matrix etc. They were all in about the same boat. Well, Bladerunner was actually a flop at the box office. Yes, i think this will be one of those films to this generation of younger movie goers.
... this week and get back to you on it!
Not that I can speak for younger movie goers any more...
But I do know a number of 30-odd-ish types who want to see it.
In my mid-50s I may not be the typical viewer... but I get to 2 or 3 films (at the cinema) a week and... well, why not?
I may well go and see it myself, but I expect to laugh as much as be.. inspired...
Now if only The Village People had done the main theme.
made for a different persuasion crowd.
I haven't seen it, not out of homophobia but out of cgi-phobia. But perhaps 300 might be considered homoerotic by some because it's a war movie designed to appeal to a male audience. Women aren't going to see 300 in large numbers; they don't consider the imagery sexually appealing.In contrast, I wouldn't label a chick flick that showed lots of male flesh in a manner that appealed to women as "homoerotic", even if it also happened to find an audience among some gay males.
they go in slow motion, then speeded up. Blood flies at the viewer and disappears (cf Children of Men).
And have admitted to finding it sexually appealing. Gerry Butler has quite a following amoungst the ladies. Don't let CGI phobia get in your way. It actually serves the movie in this case.
... hearted comment based on a radio review I heard this week.
That reviewer (she) found the hairless chests hilarious and commented that the over played (comic book) macho-ness seemed a bit over compensating.
I guess you could easily (and I think I may have) said the same about much comic art and in fact much American culture.
Or look at the accentuated physiques of American football players with the huge shoulder pads...
It suddenly comes to mind that that is exactly what The Village People were satirising in their stage appearance, isn't it?
This may be a film forum, but it seems a valid enough point, the closeted maleness of American culture...
I am running for a hard hat now...
Oh, my bad. I got the impression you really saw facism propaganda in this film. Sorry but so many people have said the same things and really meant them. Maybe it is the shameless disregard for playing it safe and being politically correct on our part that has brought out the issues in some of the viewers. This I will tell you. We were surprised by most of it. There were a few times while shooting where we scratched our heads and asked if we were crossing the line. the first was when we had young Leonidas beating another kid to near death two minutes into the movie. Oddly enough no one seems to have had an issue with this so far. the other was, well cut out. A line by the captain about dying with the smell of fine Persian wine on their breath and Persian whores on their cocks. I am not kidding. we shot that. I didn't know the Village people were satirising anything. I thought that was genuine homoeroticism.
... I tell you what... I will go and see the film this week.
If no one on the production saw how the imagery would be taken by.. well, by quite a lot of people, let's say, then I should have taken the job I was offered when I was in LA in 1991!
As for The Village People... well, I couldn't resist dropping that in...
But I think they satire and the reality of the eroticism are BOTH true.
Do you remember when gays suddenly seemed to all grow moustaches? Another adoption of an overly macho look.
Back in Britain, after skinheads took to "gay-bashing", gay men took to shaved heads, check shirts and Doc Martens boots.
As someone who has worked in promotion in the music business, been a designer and has written, I am maybe hyper sensitive to this kind of stuff, but 300 has gotten a lot more of this criticism than Sin City did and that had the same inflated machismo in many ways.
In my opinion, many military cultures (and given 6 months and a good advance I could write a book comparing Sparta with the USA) have this closet-gay-macho thing going on.
Also back then being gay wasn't much of an issue. Ancient Greeks even went for the old man young boy thing... but it's SInday (that was a genuine typo!!... really) morning and I still haven't eaten... BREAKFAST, I mean!
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