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In Reply to: It was the Colonel who was the fag! posted by Nick on May 19, 2001 at 02:58:38:
that the Colonel was gay. My interpretation is quite different. I
think we need to thresh this out. - AH
Follow Ups:
1) His openly hostile reaction to gays
2) His interpretation of the garage dope rolling scene
3) His demeanor entering the garage in the rain
last but not least
4) He f-ing KISSED the guy. He clearly did this because he believed what's-his-face was gay. If he followed the behavior he exhibited during prior exposures to homosexuals the physical contact would probably have been a punch rather than a kiss. Or at the least verbal abuse.I DO NOT agree that this is a "test" of gayness. How about dropping tro and greasing up his rear as a further "test"?
How about "asking" as opposed to physical contact?
Let me respond to your answers ad sertiam:***His openly hostile reaction to gays.***
Understandable for a macho-type. Taken alone, your assertion
doesn't prove his sexual orientation one way or another.***His interpretation of the dope rolling garage scene.***
Same as the above. However, I can understand his overaction. He
had seen Lester working out nude on his own son's camera, then
when he spotted them together with Lester partially unclad, but
with the rest of his body obscured along with his son obscured,
his worst fears were verified, at least in his own mind at that
point.***His demeanor entering the garage in the rain....***
I could clearly see the anguish on his face, as he was suffering
great internal conflict about the ambiguity as he wrestled with
the issue.***He f*cking KISSED the guy. He clearly did this because he believed
whats-his-face was gay.***Nyet! He was just testing. If you noticed, the Colonel
immediately turned and left when he was rejected. If he was gay,
he most likely would have made more overtures. But he didn't.***If he followed the behavior he exhibited during prior exposure
to homosexuals the physical contact would have probably been
a punch rather than a kiss. Or at least verbal abuse.***Neither a punch nor verbal abuse could resolve his internal
conflict about the ambiguity. It was a kiss of desperation,
not lust.***How about asking?***
Once again, not sufficient to resolve his psycho-emotional
conflict.The further question is why did the Colonel kill Lester? Assuming
the Colonel was really gay and indeed thought Lester was gay, it
seems that rejection would be the reason. However, this hardly
seems a valid motive for murder. Assuming that the Colonel was
not gay, and was apparently satisfied that Lester was not gay after rejection, there is
no reason for murder. (Refer to my original post on this point.)
> ***His openly hostile reaction to gays.***
>
> Understandable for a macho-type. Taken alone, your assertion
> doesn't prove his sexual orientation one way or another.
>
The operative phrase being "openly". In public, his public face, decries homosexuality.
> ***His interpretation of the dope rolling garage scene.***
>
> Same as the above. However, I can understand his overaction. He
> had seen Lester working out nude on his own son's camera, then
> when he spotted them together with Lester partially unclad, but
> with the rest of his body obscured along with his son obscured,
> his worst fears were verifiedAgain, "jumping to a conclusion with only circumstantial evidence leads one to believe homosexuality preys strongly on his mind.
> ***He f*cking KISSED the guy. He clearly did this because he believed
> whats-his-face was gay.***
>
> Nyet! He was just testing.Immediately chagrined by the unexpected reaction to the "test" he backs off.
> Neither a punch nor verbal abuse could resolve his internal
> conflict about the ambiguity. It was a kiss of desperation,
> not lust.Couldn't agree more. He was definately conflicted regarding his own sexuality. A wife that was a basket case has left him celibate for years and his sexual desires get the better of him.
> ***How about asking?***
> Once again, not sufficient to resolve his psycho-emotional
> conflict.Asking is a very acceptable method of sexual orientation identification. Haven't you been propositioned by a gay yet?
> The further question is why did the Colonel kill Lester? Assuming
> the Colonel was really gay and indeed thought Lester was gay, it
> seems that rejection would be the reason. However, this hardly
> seems a valid motive for murder. Assuming that the Colonel was
> not gay, and was apparently satisfied that Lester was not gay after > rejection, there is
> no reason for murder. (Refer to my original post on this point.)What better reason to kill someone than to hide a (in your eyes) hideous secret shared?
In LSD and psylocibin experiments in the 1950's and 60's, one of the
primary fears of men taking the drug was the fear of latent homosexuality;
most of the time these fears were found to be just ghosts; cultural
fictions instilled from early childhood drug up from the basement
of their psyches. It's common. Of course, some men are much more
prone to these types of fears, like the Colonel. Guilt is often
associated with fear; it's more probable the Colonel would have
committed suicide than homicide upon being hit with the shock of
discovering that he was really gay himself.
The Colonel literally had his world rocked when he thought his
own son was gay; the question, "where did I go wrong?" probably churned over and over in his mind as he tried to make sense of it.
There are many men who are openly hostile to gays, but that doesn't
necessarily men they are repressed gays. Just doesn't follow.
You say that asking is an acceptable method of sexual orientation
identification. Yes it is in many cases, but not in the context of
this film's plot, the emotional conflict within the Colonel was just too powerful. I
have been propositioned before more than once, easy to brush off, there was no prior established relations; not the case in the film. That you
believe in the frivolous manner the plot was carried out on this issue
makes me think that you want to force fit it into you admirable view
of this film.
Rejection is sometimes a valid reason for murder; however, it
behooves common sense to believe that the Colonel would murder Lester
after rejection. He could have always tried a sexual come-on again later. For Christ's Sake, there are tons of gays running
around available for the Colonel to experience his newly discovered
sexuality. Heck, he had a couple of potential partners living just
next door - the anethesologist and the tax attorney!
No, this contrived mess stinks to High Heaven. - AH
I can't believe we're arguing about this. To me, the Colonel is obviously gay. He seems to me like a catholic school boy who knows that him liking girls is bad, morally wrong, but can't help it, and eventually explodes after a sequence of personal drama, who then feel really really bad after thinking being rejected.If like you said, the Colonel was simply "testing" Lester, then I didn't see it. The Colonel didn't seem to be pretentious at all; he is simply a broken man showing his true self.
***To me the Colonel is obviously gay.***Look a little deeper into the situation and you will discover
that "obviously" is only apparent and not real. Be willing to
shift your viewpoint and a whole new world of insight will be
yours. Then you will shake my hand and thank me! Caa, be more
flexible and I promise you will be rewarded. I feel at this
point I must appeal to your instinct, not logic and common sense,
for anyone can, or rather should, see that it's shallow to believe
that the Colonel would kill Lester after ONE rejection; just downright implausible. The
Colonel was going thru terrible torment from the lingering doubt
after viewing the garage scene with Lester and his own son; the
problem was that there wasn't enough perceptual evidence to 100%
confirm in his mind that a homosexual act actually took place. That's the
whole reason for the test kiss. It's hard to believe you and
certain others can't see that torment literally etched into the
Colonel's face because of this inner turmoil as he entered Lester's
garage.
The Colonel is a fictional character who could easily do anything feeling rejected, or not. Don't underestimate the humiliation of being rejected, especially about something that is identified with being oneself.I've said all I want to say in my other posts, namely it doesn't make sense the Colonel 'was testing', nor did he give any evidence or clue to support your interpretation. It's a probable explanation, but it just isn't convincing to stray away from the simplest and obvious explanation: he's gay. What's so difficult about that? Besides, i can't imagine anyone who's so disgusted with homosexuality could test someone by holding him tightly, wet and kissing him. Yucky!
But this is all beside the point; the Colonel is just a small piece of the whole picture which portrays the tumours that impose upon everyone, Lester, in particular, who thought that he freed from them only to have them come back eventually in other shapes and forms to bite him in the neck. And it puts things into perspective.
I don't understand why you have to take this less probable interpretation to the obvious, and then ask yourself (in your first post) why? To which your only answer is 'a cheapshot at surprise ending'.
***It's a probable explanation, but it just isn't convincing to stray
away from the most simple and obvious explanation: he's gay.***Right about the probable explanation, furthermore, it's the MOST probable explanation; this explanation is
less obvious and more complex - look deeper, ponder more.***The Colonel is a fictional character who could easily do anything
rejected or not."NOT! Even fictional characters are bound by certain rules of
consistency and credibility. Readers and viewers rebel against
gross violations, ask any writer.***Besides, i can't imagine anyone whose so disgusted with
homosexuality could test someone by holding him tightly, wet and
kissing him. Yucky!***You are letting your personal feelings interfere with your
objectivity. Look at the situation in the correct manner and
you will see the rationale behind the kiss.
> > A wife that was a basket case has left him celibate for years and his sexual desires get the better of him. < <Or maybe his sexual desires got the better of him and he left his wife celibate for years which turned her into a basket case.
So you would have us believe that this unmotivated murder was simply > > a cheap, contrived plot device inserted for surprise effect < < rather than admit that the colonel was a latent homosexual who murdered the only witness to this fact?> > Assuming the Colonel was really gay and indeed thought Lester was gay, it seems that rejection would be the reason. However, this hardly
seems a valid motive for murder < <What are > > valid < < motives for murder?
LOOOOOOOOOOL
Parhaps audiohead was recently approached in a similar manner and still isn't sure if he did it or not? :)))))))
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