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In Reply to: Did you really need to turn your critique... posted by Audiophilander on February 01, 2002 at 06:52:24:
Quite disingenuous coming from you. I think anything having to do with actors and other film industry insiders is a fair subject for discussion here.Don't like the post - don't read... okay?
Follow Ups:
... OKAY?He used Alan Alda's response to a question on Inside the Actor's Studio as an excuse to parade his personal political viewpoint, and that doesn't belong here, IMHO.
His quote regarding Alda's politics: > > > "He had me charmed the first 30minutes or so with his exceptional intelligence vis. Acting...but then he blew it...BIG TIME! -- (he, Alda, said in regard to Hawk Eye's becoming a popular and well loved character) ...words to the effect... 'I think it was when I started speaking out publicly for the Equal Rights Amendment.' That did it and it confirms for me all the pre-conceived things one associates with those out of touch, Left Coast, Dumb Actors, who actually believes in their own press releases." < < <
If he thought that Alan Alda had been an inept public speaker, he would've said so, but in fact he pointed to having been charmed by Mr. Alda's intelligence up until that point. Clearly it was the politics of the actor which offended him. However, instead of simply saying that he disagreed with those views he attacked the viewpoint viciously and labeling Hollywood Liberal as if THAT were something to be ashamed of! IMHO, if either Mike or you, want to parade such views there is a place for it, ...it's called Outside Asylum (as YOU well know)!
No offense Victor, but your mirror crack's aside you might consider reflecting on the best place for such debates yourself.
AuPh
As I said - disingenuous, and you are not giving us anything different to chew on. Look at your previous posts if you forgot. You often bring political issues into discussions of films.That to me is not objectionable, as - as I said - anything related to the actors, films, stories can be discussed here. My only concern with your posts was in treating the political subjects as if it were the element of art.
The way I see it, a political aspect of a film story is fair game. A political affiliations and passions, the character and history of the makers of films - by all means. These all help us in understanding why and how.
So I really don't understand what makes you so sensitive all of a sudden. And especially playing the role of a forum cop - did I miss anyone appointing you?
I have not seem anyone abuse that yet here, to me some minor deviations from just the "straight movies" talk are OK and make this place more fun.
I thought that bit on Alda and ERA was interesting and fit well with my view of him.
> > > "You often bring political issues into discussions of films." < < <Not out of context; if you can find any, post them for rebuttal; I'll be glad to oblige.
As I stated before, political discussion IN THE CONTEXT of film(s) is fine, even desirable. My problem was the cheap use of an actor's public statements in an interview as a personal soapbox to disrespect the actor and the political viewpoint he expressed; THAT doesn't belong here, IMO.
> > > "So I really don't understand what makes you so sensitive all of a sudden." < < <
It isn't a matter of my being sensitive. To the contrary, it's a matter of the post's author appearing insensitive to the personally held political viewpoint of anyone sharing similar views to those of actor Alan Alda. What do such polarizing personal insertions have to do with politics expressed through film and/or television scripts? Do we want to start using this forum as a political dump by simply inserting a reference to actor ______________ (fill in the blank) who's personal views happen to be a grist for discussion? We already have a great place for that, don't we?
If you want to discuss politics & acting from the standpoint of comparing the political subtext of various films an actor or actress works on with aspects of an actor's lifestyle, that's fine; it fits the criteria! What doesn't fit the criteria is the open dissing of an actor and his/her political views just because certain remarks were made in an interview that didn't mesh with the author's. Is that clear enough?
AuPh
Dear AuPh,Regarding my comments on Alan Alda...and I guess Robert Redford...I suggest that you forward your comments directly to Mr. Alda and Mr. Redford, and not to me. I feel they are more qualified to speak on that subject, and I'm sure they will answer any questions you have. They seem to be most proud of the views they express, and have no problem talking about it.
I'm sure you will find the address and telephone number of their Agent Representatives from the Screen Actors Guild and the Directors Guild of America.
Remember, it is they who have chosen to make their opinions public, regarding any number of public issues, and it is part of their well known and much public, persona. It is as much part of them, and as famous, as the acting roles they play and have played. In fact, it is interwined, and indistinguishable from their work.
They are happy with it and proud of it...so why aren't you ????
Please excuse the alternate moniker; I'm working from a new computer without e-mail up and running yet and the moniker registration safeguards are preventing my posting under Audiophilander.Now for the subject at hand:
> > > "I suggest that you forward your comments to to Mr. Alda and Mr. Redford and not to me. I feel they are more qualified to speak on that subject... -- They seem most proud of the views they express and have no problem talking about it. -- They are happy with it and proud of it...so why aren't you?" < < <
Mike, with all due respect it wasn't THEIR views, public or private, which concerned me here. YOUR political commentary is what was out of place as I see it. By expressing an opinion about their politics, whether some may feel it was an informed opinion or not, you were trying to elicit a favorable response from other like-minded Conservatives that had nothing to do with films or DVDs. You weren't really interested in the actor or his work, just dissing his politics in a manner that insulted anyone with a Liberal perspective.
IMHO, that sort of stuff belongs over in the Outside Asylum! FTR, personal opinions, including those expressed by actors, are discussed over there all the time. However, Outside isn't for the weakhearted; folks over ther give as good as they get and you won't be preaching to the choir.
AuPh
Auph,You are embarassing yourself, and I genuinely feel sorry for you.
For your own good and future credibility, I'm saying..."Goodnight Gracie !" !
(I dare you not to respond to my post. Let's see how long he can hold out, fellow members!)
> > > "You are embarassing yourself..." < < <How? By speaking the truth?
> > > "... and I genuinely feel sorry for you." < < <
I think the pity you're feeling may be a bit closer to home.
> > > "For your own good and future credibility, I'm saying "Goodnight Gracie!"!" < < <
My position is very credible even if you disagree with it. As for your "Goodnight Gracie" crack, I doubt that you'll sign off there, but for the sake of argument, if you really meant that, you wouldn't have posted the additional insult, which is carefully worded, but condescending nonetheless.
> > > "(I dare you not to respond to my post. Let's see how long he can hold out, fellow members!)" < < <
FTR, I don't care for dares. Those who post indefensible arguments may find it a convenient way to limit debate, but I refuse to fall into such traps. I provided a very reasonable alternative for redirecting your political views where they would be welcomed. You refused to even acknowledge my polite suggestion.
The little "fellow members" notation is cute, but rather childish don't you think? Those who agree with you or your political views will concur and those who don't won't, even if they don't speak out on the topic. In either case, it doesn't alter the thrust of my argument and trying to make yourself appear "one of the gang" is ludicrous since internet forums don't function via a hive mentality. OTOH, if you're trying to find allies, I'd recommend following my suggestion and posting your political views Outside.
Respectfully,
AuPh
See...I told you !
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