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In Reply to: Wait no more posted by Victor Khomenko on February 04, 2002 at 05:18:41:
Hmm, I have extremely mixed feelings about Woody Allen. I like Miles Davis when he blows Jazz, I like Woody Allen when he's funny.
The Italian Films "The Conformist" and "Investigation of a Citizen Above Suspicion" (I'm sorry, I don't know the Italian titles) are far better examples of people trying to hide murder for the sake of doing it, and/or people in the depths of profound moral dilemma.
"Play it Again Sam", "Everything You always wanted To Know**", "Sleeper" are good, but they're just so dated now. Many of the gags were aimed at satyrising the '70's, an era that was no small target, but a lot of the gags are just too obscure.
Everything else just leaves me cold, he annoys me. I think he annoys himself; I read an interview around the release of "Wild Man Blues" where he claimed that if he had his chance again he would've forsaken filmmaking and become a musician. (The Clarinet?) I will grant him one thing; he is like Fellini insofar as he is creating Cinema to suit himself, rather than simply pandering to an audience, and when one of his films is not a box office success he rolls with the punches. It ain't over 'til the Fat Lady sings; he might surprise us yet.
Eric
Follow Ups:
I see Woody a bit differently. I would not draw the separation line between his commedies and the rest. I would divide it in Good Woody and not so good one. I certainly agree that some of his shtick is dated, although aparently was not at the time, but his good moments will be with us forever. For instance the way he always blends the music with action is fantastic, and reminiscent of the best of Kubrik - it you recall the emotionally dissonant chords of the Schuberts quartet in the Crimes... unforgettable.The two films you mentioned are both part of the world classic, but I would not see a wide separation between them and the Crime. All of them serious works that causes one to think... such an antiquated notion.
I too love his complete disregard for the Hollywood tinsel crowd. I can't really tell if he hurts inside from the rejection, I suspect he does, but I am grateful to him for standing up to that. Not becoming a whore when the easy money is on the table is not an easy choice, and just one look at the endless horder of pale Hollywood whores is enough to realize just how strong the pressure to "conform" (thanks for the hint... great film) must be.
Is he going to be able to continue his lonely journey - I certainly hope so.
But be it as it may, he is almost the only small island in the sea of the current mediocrity.
Just for fun, I looked at the list of Academy award nominations from 1950 to now... what a stream of sad jokes. Presious few ones that deserve any attention, and in most cases - not getting the award.
I agree about the Woody Allen soundtracks,in fact, I like them better than the films. As compilations of Dixieland and early American Jazz (most of it really hard to find in any format), they are just great.
He's used "Let's Misbehave" in about 3 films and it cracks me up every time. He must be a record collector; he certainly has an ear.
Eric
***I agree about the Woody Allen soundtracks,in fact, I like them better than the films.But Eric, aren't you a bit too hard on the old man Woody?
What I mean is he is no Bergman (although being able to hire Sven Nykvist is a sure mark of recognition... I doubt Sven would ever work for Spielberg) and no Fellini, but isn't he easily the best American director at the moment?
Certainly we should not consider Woody in such company as Riddley Scott or George Lucas?
That in itself is not small achievement in my book. I presume it is one thing to produce thoughtful films in the shaddow of Cinecitta, and quite another under the relentless pressure to conform from the worst of Hollywood.
I dunno; unless he's done something since "Wild Man Blues" and "Small Time Crooks" I guess I have seen them all. I am a very jaded filmgoer and once sat down and wrote a list of as many films as I could remember having seen, on the basis that I had to recollect the title, and at least one actor/actress or director; and the plot or theme outline; that list was 3,700 films before I gave up counting, and that was over 20 Years ago.
I've been very lucky that I have kept an open mind and been exposed to a broad range of styles; the downside being that the "B/S filter" has become so deep that there's almost no film I can watch now without me consciously or unconsciously comparing it to something I've already seen. This isn't looking through the Past with a rosy tint; I hated "bad" films just as much when I was a teenager.
In fact the level of criticism is further skewed by me thinking "Well, if only they'd done that" or "if only that Actor/Actress had/hadn't been used" etc.
I'll give you an example. Spielberg did "Schindler's List" and painted a picture with Liam Neeson of Schindler as a desperado that turned into a humanist; ultimately paying out an ill-gotten fortune to save hundreds of people. Problem is; as charming as the character was portrayed; the story was patently false. Schindlers widow said as much in an interview; that he was a duplicitous, selfish, avaricious uncaring, unrepentant monster, and remained that way all his life.
How much better could the film have been, if we had seen Schindler portrayed as he REALLY was, a completely unredeemable bastard, finally undone in a scene near the end of the film with him packing suitcases full of worthless Reichmarks, and then have him suddenly realising that they were worthless, and that all his years of profiting from slave labor had been for nought. That's the Scene I would've really liked to see. (Shame on you Spielberg; you deprived us of that moment).
That's what's my problem; if Woody Allen wasn't doing his ancient schtick and chumming around with his pals (have dinner with me and be in my Movie), if he could adopt some kind of non-"feel good" social conscience (as per Spike Lee) or actually have SOMETHING to say other than Hollywood chronyism and let's get sentimental about old New York, I might like him a great deal more. I thoroughly appreciate he has produced a considerable volume of work, and is a greatly admired and prolific writer and director. It's not the sin of commission, but the sin of ommission I am voicing here.
I tar the entire US film industry with the same brush, and Mr. Allen is not exempt. It is almost universally predictable formulaic drivel, a thorough misuse of the Medium and given the resources and talent at hand, in the context of what "Film As Art" is capable of; a disgrace.
I can only hope that if decent Cinema is to have a future; the Mike Leigh's will continue to not sell out, no more Peter Greenaway's or Tarkovsky's will decease, and a new generation of Filmmakers with a helluva more vision and courage than the current lot will emerge.
If that is unreasonable, then let us simply agree to differ.
Eric
Tokyo
He-he, Eric, looks like we touched the nerve here.Anyway, I am still a bit puzzled by your rejection of Woody, but let me emphasize the point I was trying to make. He is not a great director in the ever-lasting sense, not one of the titan what walked the Earth (mostly the European part of it). However he is in my view a rather interesting director with a unique approach and vision.
However, his main role to me ramains that of an outsider and the leader, the speerhead of a small "democratic" opposition if you will, to the well-oiled juggernaut that has managed to destroy almost any chance of good fimls appearing in America. In that particular case the pray turned out to be too stubborn - not did it not just disappear, but it kept making films, each one of which is still an event.
So let's look at the same question from the different perspective - is he not the best director in the US today? Let's give him his true and well deserved credit - in the sea of french fries, Tarantinos, Spielbergs, Lucas', Stones, Scotts, etc, etc, etc who else produces films like Woody? Noone, unfortunately. And as I mentioned before, I presume the pressure on him is relentless.
So I am thankful to the man for keeping the US still on the map as a country where at least *some* good films would be made. Sometimes that in itself is a tremendous achievement.
Regarding your interesting observations about Schindler... I agree, BUT... remove that sentimental note and you have a marketplace bummer. Here in the US the only way to score high with the public was to throw them that stale "feel good" bone.
As a general rule, the American public can't take the reality. They universally see the reality as gray, pale, boring. They see the emotions and sufferings of normal, real human beings as trivial and lacking zest. So the industry delivers the spice. It comes in many forms and we know them all.
Bad spice is used in bad films, and there is no ambiguity. But what usually passes here for "good" film, a film that generates huge profits and creates crowds, is usually full of *good* artificial sweetener.
Usually that is the feel-good theme, of which the Americans are the Grandest of the Grand Masters. Where else would you see produced such marvels like the Rain Man? Jeez.... What would be left in that "film" if one were to remove the most silly scenes of counting matches, etc? Just another cheap cliche that works like a charm.
That good spice is actually the reflection of the basically good and humane nature of the Americans, it is just kept undeveloped, unfortunately, at the rather naive level. Why? Because it is easier to make another Schindler than another Autumn Sonata.
You see that theme in many recent films. It is the same in the Private Ryan, and there the syrup is dumped by truckloads - all those most idiotic and in poor taste scenes at the cemetary were beneath any serious filmmaker.
Precisely, it's all about the bottom line and appealing to the lowest common denominator. I keep watching Woody Allen films in the hope he will one day produce a "La Strada" or even a "1900"; he has do drop the nervous schtick; it was OK as standup comedy 35 Years ago, and realise that "less is more".
An Artist MUST progress; a Director is only as good as his last film.
If I can paraphrase Mr. Allen; "A Director's muse is like a shark; it has to keep moving forward or die, and what I think we have here is a dead shark..."
Pedro Almoldovar's film "About My Mother" (Japanese title) has believable characters that are (thankfully) not whining about their inadequacies and failed relationships; they are brave, caring and credible. This is way beyond the level of mere soap opera. As a Director Almoldovar has progressed in leaps and strides. Spike Lee has given us "Clockers" and "Malcolm X" and Mike Leigh "Secrets and Lies", all considerably more credible and emotionally involving than Mr. Allens recent work IMHO. I think as Woody Allens odometer clicks closer to the big "Seven-Oh" we just might get to see his Masterwork.
As for Spielberg; he relentless researches the authenticity of Sets, Uniforms and equipment; and then gives us drivel as dialog in "Ryan" that are words that no WW-2 grunt would have ever dreamed of uttering; a total joke!
Eric
Tokyo*
La Strada, hun? But are you sure Maestro himself could produce it again?I am not sure I agree with your statement about the "last film". Was Kubrick only as "good" as his last film, a complete disgrace IMO?
I think we should accept the notion that careers have ups and downs, and are mostly uneven progressions.
And Spielberg.... ah, forget it, don't want to spoil my morning. Have a good one in Tokyo - beautiful city.
My use of "last fim" would've probably been better served by "latest film". Yeah, Kubrick was extremely "hit and miss", his "last" film was pretty awful to be sure.
Without Anthony Quinn, "La Strada" would be unrepeatable by any Director; Fellini included. I think many of AQ's films were so indelibly stamped with his unique brand of joie de vivre that only Quinn could have played those characters. Such is the nature of such rarified and collosal talent; it is unrepeatable.
I was using "La Strada" more as an emphasis of the type of quality Film Woody Allen I'm sure is capable of; moreover, what I expect from him.
I notice on the forum you have mentioned "Solaris" many times, are you familiar with Tarkovsky's "The Stalker?"
Thanks for the "have fun in Tokyo"; please enjoy the USA, I doubt you could do anything but enjoy, it's a great place too!
Eric
Tokyo*
When I think of La Strada the first thing that I see is Masina's face, and only then AQ's. I always thought SHE made the film. But there is little question, they both were great there. And as far as her best role that is Cabiria... no ifs... Unforgettable and soooo human... soooo un-Hollywood.See my comments at top of this page re. Stalker. Maybe I should reread the novel and THEN try again.
America IS a great place. But my wife would go again to Japan in a microsecond. Many Westerners feel uncomfortable there, but we felt completely at ease each time.
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