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In Reply to: Why is Plasma better??? posted by ICI on May 20, 2002 at 15:31:56:
Good question. It seems you've become aware of some of the technical areas in which Plasmas excel (and hopefully the few were they do not).But the whole picture quality thing is still quite subjective, and there are lots of display technologies out there, so obviously you should let your eyes decide.
HOWEVER, that said, I can give some subjective comment on the picture quality of plasma vs. other types of screen (I just bought a Panasonic 42" plasma).
A/V magazines tend to evaluate every display device along a common set of technical parameters, and then tell you how the screen "performed" on a technical scale. What the magazines normally fail to convey is how each screen technology looks different from the other. Each produces a different "feel" viewing experience, which is obvious to anyone who strolls through a well-stocked AV store. (Coming from an audiophile perspective, this really annoys me about the Home Theater gear reviews).
Anyhoo...I found that a good plasma offers a wonderful, new viewing experience - one that I'd never encountered before seeing a plasma.
"Organic" is the best way I can describe it. The picture can be so clear, so clean, so naturally smooth, and so vivid and *dense.*Compared to Plasma: CRT screens look softer and fuzzier to me. RPTVs look soft too, more washed out, less punchy and dense (although they can look nice and cinematic). I also intensely dislike the hot-spot illumination of RPTVs, as it feels like the projector light is being shone into my eyes. As far as Video Projectors, excepting the most insanely expensive set-ups, most strike me as a sub-par version of a "real" film projection experience. Also, cinematic as video projectors can be, they can never offer the incredible "looking through a window at real, solid objects" vibe that I see on good plasmas. I was watching Shrek on Panasonic plasma and it was amazing how tactile the image looked; like I could reach out and touch Shrek's spongy bald head. When the dragon blew fire at the screen in the movie, the fireball approaching me was so vivid and dimensional I swear my skin flushed, as if it were bracing for the fire to wash over me. I've just never really had such amazing viewing experiences with any other technology.
In my case, I'm a movie nut. But it was plasma and only plasma that convinced me to spend my hard earned bucks to upgrade from my (very good) CRT. It boiled down to this: all the other technologies offered to my eye a visual experience that was a below-par substitute for "real film projection." Plasma doesn't necessarily look just like projection, but it offers a viewing experience that in *some ways* even betters what I see in the movie theater. (And this comes from a very dyed-in-the-wool movie theater nut - I have until now always dismissed the home-theater experience).
There ya go. A personal testimonial. Get out there and look at a plasma with your own DVDs. Maybe you should hope you aren't impressed as I was...they are still expensive :-)
Another thing: if you think the plasma (or other display device) looks good in the store, it will likely look even better once you get it home, with a good feed and properly tweaked picture. Stores usually have their screens set-up with crappy split feeds and poorly calibrated screens.Rich .
Follow Ups:
Rich,Hey glad to see you got your Plasma! I've been following your posts ever since you got your first view of a "good" Plasma screen in NYC. Which I'm assuming is the one you purchased. It was kind of cool seeing your progression from someone who thought Plasma was weak to someone who enjoys it. And I'm sure you did a lot of research along the way before purchasing.
I thank you for your thoughts.
I've got a question for you: What source (besides DVD) are you feeding the monitor with?? Such as for viewing TV; satelite, cable, HDTV tuner? I'm just curious because I'm a cable service technician and I'm always in people's homes and see a lot of what our cable service looks like on HDTV's. 90% of the time it looks pretty crummy because of the source. Cable TV is just not high resolution. Although in a few cases, the image was fantastic. I'm assuming that this is where line-doubling comes in. I'm not too sure, I'm really an audio guy. But in most cases it looked very digital, with loads of artifacts. But I have NOT seen a plasma screen with cable.
And also, are you viewing any TV material in HDTV such as CSI or Jay Leno (I think he's in HDTV) How much material are you seeing broadcast in HDTV? I'm hearing that there is a lot now, but I'm just curious how much is retrievable with just the HDTV tuner without satelite. This may be a whole seperate topic of it's own. Becasue it sounds like you're mainly using it for viewing DVD's.
Again, I thank you for your time!
haven't seen the new digital cable feeds because i dumped my cable service years ago--the signal quality varied from just OK to horrible, with all kinds of audio bleeding into the system (ham operators and hot-rodded trucker CBs ), and went out of service frequently for hours at a time especially when there were thunderstorms, but sometimes for no reason at all. They don't give you a rebate if you lose service for a day, nor do they apologise.so i went to Directv and have never had a problem, except for the occasional very brief (1-2 min) loss-of-signal when a particularly thick thundercloud was directly between my dish and the satellite, but that is quite rare. most thunderstorms do not block the signal enough to lose the lock.
for network stations i use a UHF antenna in the attic and take ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX and a few PBS stations right off the air (and it's FREE!!) in the digital bands. The networks occasionally broadcast in HD, like for the olympics (FANTASTIC PICTURES!) or some feature film event, otherwise you get a very good digital picture in 4:3 format (with the gray sidebars). Some shows like "The West Wing" are broadcast digitally in "widescreen" (not high definition), but the taping of that show is done on 1/2" used VHS tape and has the worst lighting and resolution ever broadcast for TV. The show looks like it was taped underwater and dubbed six times then suffered signal jamming on the bounce from LA to NY. So I watch it on the satellite feed and adjust the parameters--even then the color is so bad it's better in black and white.
The PBS stations are great. They have an all HDTV demo channel with music that is mesmerizing--this is the stuff that will show you why the plasma phanatics have gone bonkers about the light, colors, and 3D quality of their sets. When you see an "off-the-air" HD broadcast on a plasma you will understand what all the fuss is about.
I too have the 42" Panasonic. It has a built-in scaler/doubler that upsamples your input to 480x756. You don't need a 480p DVD player to get the best picture with this model. The high-definition 720p and 1080i signals are down-converted to 480p, since this model is not HD capable (that's why you want a 50" set!).
That being said, a 1080i HD feed looks much much better than a 480p feed--don't ask me why. Even though the 42" Panny is not HD capable, it's awfully close--to me it wasn't worth twice the price to have certified HDTV.
I'm using the 18" round dish with the single LNB that i had installed a while back, but upgraded from the Sony SAT-60 to the HDTV capable Sony HD100 tuner/sat receiver. This unit will take off-the-air, cable, and satellite feed and output every format currently in use around the world: it is the "universal translator" of television. Very highly recommended. To get HDTV from the satellite I'll have to intall the 24" x 18" dish with dual LBNs. I'll be doing that in a few weeks. So far I think the only HD signals from the satellite come from HBO and the HD network, both of which are premium ($$) options. But the regular digital broadcasts on satellite are very good quality, although it does vary from network to network--C-span is consistantly the best quality signal and the Republican-affiliated stations (Rupert Murdock, etal) are the worst.
BE WARNED that a bad signal looks really really bad on a plasma, and no amount of rescaling and line doubling will help that. There will be times when you wonder if you were nuts to spend so much more to get a plasma screen, and then you'll switch to the PBS HD channels and go WHOLLY SHIT THIS IS FARKIN AMAZING!!!!!! Yes you keep forgetting how good HDTV is, and other amazing things too--like the extremely good picture and color of the old television shows like the origional Star Trek as compared to their "new and improved" counterparts on pro video tape, like "The Next Generation"--which looks horrible on the big screen (pro video tape is no match for film).
Perhaps that is another reason the networks are so slow to switch to all HD broadcasts--it makes their post 60's syndicated videotaped shows look so bad--and yet The Beverly Hillbillies and The Three Stooges look fantastic!
Also, I love the fact that you can hang this TV on the wall like a fine work of art, and get rid of all that TV furnature you used to have cluttering-up the room. Mine is mounted low (at couch-potato height) with all the wires hidden between the studs behind the drywall. Even when it's off it looks fantastic. Visitors don't know what it is. How cool is that?!
You must have the set re-calibrated. They come from the factory way way too hot so they look good in the store. Since you've spent so much to get a 50" plasma you should hire a professional video technitian to set-up and re calibrate for you in your home. If you leave it as delivered you will burn out early (on some models you can access the set-up menu and turn down the white level, but then you have to adjust the black levels too so you might as well hire a pro to be sure you don't screw yourself)--and you won't be seeing everything you paid for.
then again, if you wait a week or so something new in plasma will happen--the price keeps dropping and the quality keeps getting more awesome, if that's possible.
usually they release the next generation about a month after you buy one.
Bruce tells me about the 43" HDTV Pie-in-ear set right after i bought the 42" EDTV Panny...
the horror...
Pete,Two things:
1. Have you had your Panny calibrated? I figure I'd like to get around to it, but I'd appreciate a little report on the results from you. Is it all pluses, or any minuses to a calibrated Panny? I sheepishly admit I'm a little afraid of loosing the amazing dimensionality of the out-of-the-box picture (what with those stratospheric contrast/brightness settings - although a tamer brightness setting would likely be more soothing in the long run).
2. I evaluated the HDTV Pioneer 433HD before going for the Panny, and still chose the Panny. Pioneer is great: sharp, vivid, punchy, and even has pretty good black levels. But it still lags behind the black levels produced by the Panny. When viewing dark movie scenes on the Pioneer I found myself wishing for the Panny blacks (instead of the pretty dark "gray" of the Pioneer). Also, the Pioneer tended to fling digital/video artifacts in my face. So, while the Pioneer can be spectacular with the right source, the Panny offers to my eyes a smoother, "deeper," more pleasing picture on a wider variety of sources. (And with the Panny blacks I never get that feeling like I'm making a trade-off, moving from CRT to Plasma).
Rich H.
Tom S linked me to a FAQ Panasonic site that was a great help in getting my 42Panny back to "normal". I can't get the link to work now but the address is: http://www.creath.net/plasma/faq.htmlemail me if you can't get it and i'll see if i can send you a copy of the instructions.
I spent several hours chatting with Jamie at the Overture store in Wilmington and he convinced me that I need to hire him for the final calibrations. I'm moving to a new home in a few weeks so I thought I'd wait 'till the audio/video room is done before I have him come out. (and...well...don't tell the wife but....((the horror)) ).
But yes I did give up alot of the wonderful glowing color and contrast that you see with the "factory" settings, and yes, it wasn't easy. After a while you will "see" that the correct settings are much more real, and going back to the factory settings will make you insane. Do you like the sound of Bose? Cerwin Vega? Know what I mean? You have to do this Rich...you can't stay high forever (do you hear me Timothy Leary?)
gotta go Rich...be back later
pete
... but how can i reach that hidden menu stuff?
I would like to know how to reach it, to see if i could enhance my image, but i don't even know if the service manual is sold at Portugal.
Can you tell me if there is some kind of key combination at the remote control? or else...Thanks.
Pedro.
Thanks Pete.Rich
I'm basically an audio guy too :-)Sorry, but I'm not in a good position to enlighten anyone in regards to plasma performance with cable/sat. Mine is so new I haven't even had it installed yet. So, I have not hooked it up to my cable box (I'm going to experiment with cable vs sat at some point). I have seen quite a few plasmas run with cable and SD and the pictures were all over the map. Some poor, some good, some great, depending on the station signal. Frankly I hate digital compression artifacts more than analog distortions. A local store has the Panasonic plasmas (mine model included) hooked up to cable and they look pretty good. I can say that, unlike many of the "digital/HDTV-ready" CRTs I've seen, the Panasonic plasmas don't seem to add annoying digital artifacts to the signal. It all depends on the signal itself.
I'm very curious how my cable is going to look on my plasma. However, as you noted, I bought the thing to watch movies on DVD, as I do not watch much broadcast TV at all. So, for me if I loose some signal quality on broadcast the compromise is still worth it.
Of course, I have hooked up my DVD player to the plasma and run through most of my DVD collection...entranced. I was very happy to find that the little qualms I had with this plasma in the show room (I thought I'd spotted pixelation here, softness there, poor de-interlacing there) are virtually absent in my home. Combined with my Panny RP-91 DVD player I just cannot believe how clean, sharp, smooth and artifact-free the image is - like nothing I've seen before.
Best of luck on your plasma education :-)
Rich.
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