 
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
|
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
I want to hear from anyone who has either the RP62 or RP82. I'm especially curious about the RP82, as it adds DVD-A support. I'd also like to hear from anyone with the Denon DVD-1600. Is it worth the $500 for better audio? Or same someone modify any of these players?My current shortlist includes the Panasonic DVD-RP56/RP62/RP82 and the Denon DVD-1600. My TV is a Toshiba 36AF61. Which is Standard Definition, but nice flat tube nonetheless. I watch 1-2 DVDs or VHS videos a month. Mostly Widescreen action film-type stuff. I'd also consider the Sony DVP-NS500V, but I'd read rumors that is suffers from the chroma upsampling error. But SACD would be nice.
Follow Ups:
I have the RP82S in case you are still interested. I have had it for a week now. Incredible. Not sure why you would want to spend the extra on the Denon as the Panasonic has the same features including the bass management at 100 hz. The sound is phenomenal. The DTS and Dolby DAC's are also better than the ones in my Kenwood 510 receiver so I am using the analog multi connections for everything. Makes a big difference. Go for it you won't be sorry.
Supposedly, and don't even look exactly like the pictures we've seen for the last 6 months.
and decided not to keep, so I'm still waiting for the RP82. Due to the circumstances of my ordering, the 82 cost $10 more than the 62 does, so that's why, and might as well try that new-fangled DVD-A thing just to say I did... Still don't know if the 82 will have the Sage/Faroudja chipset. Or if the 82 will have coaxial digital audio out, Panny says it does, pics (from 6 months ago) don't show it. Will have to wait a month to see.One thing I like about the 62/82 is they're made in Japan, most others in that price range aren't. The 62 has better audio DAC's than the 56. The 56 and 62 are both equally lightweight, the 1600 is heavier for sure, which could imply a better build, but I haven't seen inside any of these players. The 1600 has a better audio section than the 56/62. To me, the 56 looks nicer than the 62, which looks decidedly cheap, but YMMV.
I have an RP56, so I saw no reason to get a 62 as it's not really an upgrade as far as video goes. To choose between these two, I'd go by price or looks. Choose the Denon 1600 if you are going to use the player extensively for redbook CD's too (without an external DAC), same video quality as the 56/62.
Somebody else could give you better info re using DVDP's for music, as I don't do that, I keep my video and music systems fairly isolated, so I don't really care much about the DVDP's music capability; I use it half-assedly, so far just for music DVD's where I'm not too critical (there are some quite good ones). SACD is supposed to be a "high end" audio format, so I don't see the point of playing them on a cheap player, because you are restricted to the DAC/audio section the manufacturer gives you, and cheap ones aren't that great. And I wouldn't personally put $500 of mods into a $200 machine. Personally, there are not enough SACD's that I would really want to buy, but when there are, I think I'd get a player specifically designed for audio, not video, for them. By that time, who knows, all mainstream players might do video and none are audio only (except for cars and portable).
I'm not sure what I want to do at this point. And that doesn't help me make a choice! Right now I have the audio and video systems integrated into a spare bedroom. I still might move the video stuff to the basement, where most of my computer lab resides. I've been cleaning items out of the lab, so I might have room for a poor man's HT - separate from the audio system. But I hate to needlessly duplicate efforts. But I really don't have rack space for a DVD player and a VCR in the main system.Unless I can find something that trumps redbook on the EVS Millennium DAC 1, I won't need to worry about redbook from the DVD player. I know I won't be satified with the audio in a budget player ( <$300) but I'm hoping it won't be so noticable for movies.
You will need that to use it with most cheaper DVDP's for redbook.
The marantz is a pretty good transport when used with a jitterbox. Plus I like having a 5 disc carousel. It would be nice to find a DVD carousel. But there aren't any on the market that I like. (either can't read CD-R, had chroma bug, blah build-quality, only toslink (yeach)). So it seems that I should maintain two front ends (one DVD and one for redbook). Redbook performance, of course, is of paramound importance to me. I'd rather not spend the rack space for two front ends. then again. I'd rather not spend $500-$1000 for a DVD player I'll replace in less than 18 months.I see Crutchfield is an authorized Denon internet dealer. Plus I think they have some financing dealing (0%). I could get the Denon DVD-1600 for 30 days and see how I like it. I don't have high hopes it'll better the EVS unit, but you never know. Also since I'm just watching 1-2 movie a week, I'm not sure how much $$$ I should sink into this project. On the flip side, I don't want to (in effect) squander money by getting a DVD player I can't stand.
I should have said cheap *progressive scan" DVDP's. The cheapest DVDP's (non-progressive) often DO have coaxial digital audio outputs, mainly the ones without component video outputs. The non-progressive ones with component outputs tend to have Toslink only. I had an exchange here with Rod M not long ago, and I can say that some of the very cheap non-progressive DVDP's are not bad at all, you should definitely try one and you might be extremely satisfied with it. You could use your EVS DAC for CD, it would look much better (with good source material, most) than VHS, so don't get too caught up in the high end features. You may be happy for next to nothing $$-wise. Then you will have a better appreciation of what capability you are buying for the next time, before sinking big bucks in a virtually daily changing technology.[Dang, I'm having trouble saying what I mean today...]
Since my TV is non-progressive, I'm wondering if I should be looking at progressive players at all? Does the de-interlacer get in my way, video performance-wise? Could I get better 480i (whatever) output from a non-progressive player than a progressive one? Do progressive players inherently have compromised interlaced (not non-interaced) output? I understand - just like with audio DACs - it's the implementation of the technology - rather than the technology itself - that determines the "real" quality of the final output.> > You could use your EVS DAC for CD, it would look much better
> > (with good source material, most) than VHS, so don't get too
> > caught up in the high end featuresDo I even need a player with the Sage/Faroudja FI2200 chip? That's just the deinteracer, right? Not the MPEG decoder, correct? Does the chroma "bug" effect me since I can't view progressive material? I thought it still would. My ETA for a HDTV is currently 3-5 years at best.
I can feed toslink into my AA DTI-PRO, which feeds my EVS DAC.
> > Then you will have a better appreciation of what capability
> > you are buying for the next time, before sinking big bucks
> > in a virtually daily changing technology.That's pretty much my concern at this point. If the denon will last me three years, I'll get it. Decent analog outputs and DVD-A. That seems like an "OK" investment of $500. but if it will be embarrassed buy the new $200 players at January 2003 CES (summer 2003 release), video wise - then it's a not-so-hot investment. Even considering the audio. In that case, I'd be better of with an outboard DAC. Then I could just keep upgrading the transport and video sections. but if the Denon is going to be "about as good as it gets" for the next few years. The pendullum swings back to the denon.
Also consider john Johnson's review of the Denon DVD-1600 at Secret's website. Specifically the following quote:
...but as you will see below, I am making the Denon DVD-1600 my reference DVD player because it passed just about every one of our Benchmark tests.
Would the Panasonic RP56 not do as well? I think their [secrets] review of the RP56 listed some "combing" issues during their "Abyss" DVD tests. Here's a link to that review .
did the Denon passt his test? It doesn't look like JJ performed that tests on the DVD-1600.Assuming the DVD-1600 performs no better (or no better than it would matter to me ), it's whether the audio of the Denon is worth $300 more than the RP56. (also DVD-A) Hmmm. There's a bit more to think about than I initally thought. That's both good and bad. heheheh.
> > [Dang, I'm having trouble saying what I mean today...]
Don't worry. It's seems that I'm not doing much better myself! LOL.
:-)
I am just not big (so far) on DVDP's for music, though many like them, usually with mods. The Denon should be much better than average for that. But don't you already have a CDP? It becomes a more complicated decision when you want the DVDP to do double-duty, and I don't have a good answer for you.I think you should try a cheap non-progressive DVDP from a place where you can return it easily, or else maybe get the RP56 for cheap somewhere. I just don't believe these devices are built for the 3-5 year timeframe, I view them as disposable, however I don't really want a collection of them (like I have for CDP's). I would not recommend you buy the RP62, maybe consider the non-progressive RV32 if you want Panny and you want a current model.
The chroma bug can manifest itself even in non-progressive, but easier to see in progressive with the increased clarity. I wouldn't worry about it too much with the TV you have, not a put-down at all, I'm just saying enjoy it and you won't even notice it might be there.
The RP56/62 and Denon 1600 are of the same video quality, audio and visible build quality distinguish them.
I'm also curious to see if the RP82 will use the same MPEG decoder as the RP91 (not referring to faroudja de-interlacer).The DVD-RV32 looks good in both black and silver.
-NT
I returned it. Motion artifacts galore and moire.
Seems like the HTPC is your best bet for FP image quality.
I've experimented with htpc for DVD, but I've yet to be satisfied. Although built primarily for DVD playback, my latest is being used for HDTV OTA reception. Still trying with DVD though.
> > I've experimented with htpc for DVD, but I've yet to be satisfied.Same here. Still playing with custom resolutions, till now HTPC hasnt given me any significant video advantages over 4 year old Toshiba SD-3109 interlaced DVDP displayed on JVC 48WP30. JVC is upconverting everything to 1080i (and it is doing a pretty good job of it), which doesnt allow me to see the differences at various resolution.
BTW, have you used RP56 before. How does that compare to RP62?
***BTW, have you used RP56 before. How does that compare to RP62?***Haven't tried the 56. The zealots claim the 62 has the same video chips. Based on what I saw from the 62, I hope not. The 62 had a great picture when the content was relatively simple and didn't have a lot of motion. The picture went to hell with motion, diagonal lines, closely spaced vertical lines, etc. I'm wondering if all the hype about these Panasonic players is justified.
I've used an HTPC (1.3 Pentium III, Radeon 8500, Power DVD) with a multiscan CRT front projector, so I didn't have the upconverting limitation. Despite that, I had problems with horizontal and vertical lines outside the image area, excessive flicker (even at 72hz), artificial color, picture grain, average sound, etc. More experimentation is in order (I'm going to try a Radeon 7500), but I'm not that hopeful. The HTPC isn't a complete waste though because I use it for HDTV OTA tuning (MyHD card) fed to a Toshiba 40 inch rear projector.
...and the M-Audio or RME cards should give you much better digital or analog out than a Soundblaster. Perhaps your 8500 would look better with the latest drivers, it seems that many of the AVS forum members are satisfied with Radeons outputting to CRT FPs, so there must be a way to make it look great with sufficient tweaking. I'm running a Radeon 32 SDR to a Sony RPTV, so the interlaced resolutions look best to me, given my scan frequency limitations. 1800x960i looks wonderful, and I've tweaked the refresh and scan rates so the picture looks quite solid. I do notice flicker sometimes on scrolling text during movies, however.
I'm aware of the M-Audio and might try that at some point, but I don't want to spend more money improving the audio until I can eliminate the video issues. Right now, the HTPC is either an expensive HDTV tuner with excellent recording capabilities built in, or an expensive DVD player with unacceptable performance with my front projector. Its DVD performance with my rear projectors is fine, but so far, doesn't justify the expenditure.
...apparently the 56 & 62 suffer form MPEG artifacts and can give a flat videoish look, though their deinterlacing performance is reportedly exemplary.The RP91 has the superior picture and freedom from MPEG issues. The killer with it? Combs on poorly flagged film material. On properly flagged films its beautiful. But if the DVD has improper flagging the player will switch back and forth between film and video mode at scene transitions until it settles back into film mode and you get combs. Drives me nuts on about 1 in 4 DVDs where there will be 10 to 50 combs. Sure, they are momentary and 3 out of 4 discs don't have a single one, but once you see them you start noticing them without even trying and they really break a films continuity. Rumor is that the Kenwood Soverign changer (of all things) has the RP91s picture quailty with superior deinterlacing properties due to using the Sage/Faroujda chip. Havn't seen one to judge for myself though.
It's becoming apparent to me that the DVD consortiums ineptitude in DVD-A is also apparent in the video side as well. Inconsistent DVD mastering / flagging plagues even new releases and the various players & chip sets all introduce their own artifacts and vary widely in their ability to deal with the consequences. Its as though they never created the equivalent of CDs redbook specs to guide content and hardware producers. Or if they did, they made the compliance with them so loose that no one really follows them.
The other thing that's striking is the infant level of player assesment in the field. Each new chipset / player has its own set of artifacts and the reviewers and users who get them compare them to last years players stumbles and proclaim them champions if they overcome them. Problem is they miss the 2 or 3 new problems they've never seen before for 3 months until they figure those out and then all you hear is how bad this player is for this new issue or that new issue. Then the next highly anticipated "killer player" comes along and the whole cycle happens all over again. I surf AVS Forums at times but the amount of useful thought demonstrated by most of the people posting there on DVD hardware is inconsistent at best.
Frankly, it's all a steaming pile of.....
joe
> > I've used an HTPC (1.3 Pentium III, Radeon 8500, Power DVD) with a multiscan CRT front projector, so I didn't have the upconverting limitation.How are you processing audio? My MB Soyo Dragan Ultra's digital passthru' is limited to two channel. Tried its built in 6 channel processor, it sucks.
8500's autodetection of the monitor thru' DVI is limiting me. Havent played around for a couple of weeks now. Need to figure out a way to override radeon detection.
> > Despite that, I had problems with horizontal and vertical lines outside the image area, excessive flicker (even at 72hz), artificial color, picture grain, average sound, etc.
Can your projector do 72Hz? It might be converting it into 30 or 60Hz and generating artifacts in the process.
***How are you processing audio?***Stereo only (I use Duos in that setup). Soundblaster Live to preamp via SPDIF or analog. Both are average.
***Can your projector do 72Hz?***
Yes
Ur talking to the wrong person. HTPC is for those who are not willing to spend money on video processors.
...but there is still an advantage to the HTPC, unless he can go all digital from a modded DVD player(or maybe a high end DVD transport, but I didn't see one listed in Rich's system) to his processor. The computer keeps the signal in the digital domain until the VGA out, avoiding resolution loss from extra A/D and D/A steps.
> > The computer keeps the signal in the digital domain until the VGA out, avoiding resolution loss from extra A/D and D/A steps.Are you suggesting DVD players do D/A--> A/D--> D/A conversions?
DVI is going to be the dominant medium of communication between source and display device.
...I don't think any of the players Rich listed have DVI outputs, nor do I know of any current models under 2k that have them either. I'd be happy to be informed if there are some...
I didn't see any crap with mine, used the same TV (Sony 51HW40) setup as for the RP56, in progressive mode. I forget the TV mode I use, but some other modes cause strange motion artifacts with some DVD's, especially those made of certain TV programs.In case I didn't mention it, side-by-side it was my opinion that the RP56 *looked* better built though, and felt better at the controls.
happens with the best, not just crap, even QC can be bad across the price gamut. The one I had worked perfectly, well, such as it is designed to do... What can I say, you may want to try another RP62 or upgrade/calibrate your TV, the problem isn't in the RP62 in general...check around elsewhere.
the RP62 just sucks. My Toshiba 5109 doesn't have those problems and neither do any of my interlaced players through an external Faroudja.
I got a GOOD one to try, and so has everybody else as far as I've heard, I don't believe EVERYBODY else's TV's are bad. So if you had a bad experience, it might be worthwhile to put it in context. OTOH, if you hate Panasonic for whatever reason, maybe you should say that, I have certain brands myself I would never buy for any reason. OK I'll say it, a marginal one, I don't like Sony, but I like their displays, I would never buy any sort of Sony disc player or receiver etc. again (have a stack of them here, I'm a slow learner). But all my displays are Sony. Weird...Where on earth do you get the idea that because your display device doesn't do "anything" to the signal that it is superior? This is not purist audio at all, processing is required. Mine does do "something" to the signal, and it looks great with the 62. Not as good as the projectors we use at work, but nonetheless good.
***I got a GOOD one to try, and so has everybody else as far as I've heard***The player has only been available for a couple of weeks, so you can't have heard much about it from users.
and I guess a little longer to the privileged. It's just that the RP56 was called "discontinued" for so long, the RP62 was highly anticipated, and with the conflicting info about it out there, info got spread around about it pretty quickly once it was available.I don't know if you consider the RP56 "good", but the Denon 1600 and the 62 are just as "good" re video. I have no problem believing you could have got a flakey example, as the RP62's do not look at all well made, no better than the $80 DVDP's, but they have progresssive scan and some other features.
I read my post later, and it seems kind of rude, I didn't mean to be offensive or put-downish of a system you enjoy. That is what counts, and we all have different criteria for different reasons.[My no-delete policy, except to correct errors, but not the post.]
I saw both at Circuit City last month. Though both did seem to have the heft of a baloney sandwich. (eek!) Though it's unfair to single out either of these units. Nearly all DVD units nowadays are fairly light. I have to keep reminding myself that good transports are not necessarily heavy transports.
you can't even turn it on without it sliding acoss the rack.
I'd be afraid the inertia of the DVD in the tray would also cause the unit to fly backwards (!!). Newton's third law et al. :-O
NT
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Top of Page ]
[ Contact Us ]
[ Support/Wish List ]
[ Copyright © 2024, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
