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In Reply to: I build computers for fun... posted by Rich on July 10, 2002 at 19:46:25:
>>I've experimented with htpc for DVD, but I've yet to be satisfied.Same here. Still playing with custom resolutions, till now HTPC hasnt given me any significant video advantages over 4 year old Toshiba SD-3109 interlaced DVDP displayed on JVC 48WP30. JVC is upconverting everything to 1080i (and it is doing a pretty good job of it), which doesnt allow me to see the differences at various resolution.
BTW, have you used RP56 before. How does that compare to RP62?
Follow Ups:
***BTW, have you used RP56 before. How does that compare to RP62?***Haven't tried the 56. The zealots claim the 62 has the same video chips. Based on what I saw from the 62, I hope not. The 62 had a great picture when the content was relatively simple and didn't have a lot of motion. The picture went to hell with motion, diagonal lines, closely spaced vertical lines, etc. I'm wondering if all the hype about these Panasonic players is justified.
I've used an HTPC (1.3 Pentium III, Radeon 8500, Power DVD) with a multiscan CRT front projector, so I didn't have the upconverting limitation. Despite that, I had problems with horizontal and vertical lines outside the image area, excessive flicker (even at 72hz), artificial color, picture grain, average sound, etc. More experimentation is in order (I'm going to try a Radeon 7500), but I'm not that hopeful. The HTPC isn't a complete waste though because I use it for HDTV OTA tuning (MyHD card) fed to a Toshiba 40 inch rear projector.
...and the M-Audio or RME cards should give you much better digital or analog out than a Soundblaster. Perhaps your 8500 would look better with the latest drivers, it seems that many of the AVS forum members are satisfied with Radeons outputting to CRT FPs, so there must be a way to make it look great with sufficient tweaking. I'm running a Radeon 32 SDR to a Sony RPTV, so the interlaced resolutions look best to me, given my scan frequency limitations. 1800x960i looks wonderful, and I've tweaked the refresh and scan rates so the picture looks quite solid. I do notice flicker sometimes on scrolling text during movies, however.
I'm aware of the M-Audio and might try that at some point, but I don't want to spend more money improving the audio until I can eliminate the video issues. Right now, the HTPC is either an expensive HDTV tuner with excellent recording capabilities built in, or an expensive DVD player with unacceptable performance with my front projector. Its DVD performance with my rear projectors is fine, but so far, doesn't justify the expenditure.
...apparently the 56 & 62 suffer form MPEG artifacts and can give a flat videoish look, though their deinterlacing performance is reportedly exemplary.The RP91 has the superior picture and freedom from MPEG issues. The killer with it? Combs on poorly flagged film material. On properly flagged films its beautiful. But if the DVD has improper flagging the player will switch back and forth between film and video mode at scene transitions until it settles back into film mode and you get combs. Drives me nuts on about 1 in 4 DVDs where there will be 10 to 50 combs. Sure, they are momentary and 3 out of 4 discs don't have a single one, but once you see them you start noticing them without even trying and they really break a films continuity. Rumor is that the Kenwood Soverign changer (of all things) has the RP91s picture quailty with superior deinterlacing properties due to using the Sage/Faroujda chip. Havn't seen one to judge for myself though.
It's becoming apparent to me that the DVD consortiums ineptitude in DVD-A is also apparent in the video side as well. Inconsistent DVD mastering / flagging plagues even new releases and the various players & chip sets all introduce their own artifacts and vary widely in their ability to deal with the consequences. Its as though they never created the equivalent of CDs redbook specs to guide content and hardware producers. Or if they did, they made the compliance with them so loose that no one really follows them.
The other thing that's striking is the infant level of player assesment in the field. Each new chipset / player has its own set of artifacts and the reviewers and users who get them compare them to last years players stumbles and proclaim them champions if they overcome them. Problem is they miss the 2 or 3 new problems they've never seen before for 3 months until they figure those out and then all you hear is how bad this player is for this new issue or that new issue. Then the next highly anticipated "killer player" comes along and the whole cycle happens all over again. I surf AVS Forums at times but the amount of useful thought demonstrated by most of the people posting there on DVD hardware is inconsistent at best.
Frankly, it's all a steaming pile of.....
joe
> > I've used an HTPC (1.3 Pentium III, Radeon 8500, Power DVD) with a multiscan CRT front projector, so I didn't have the upconverting limitation.How are you processing audio? My MB Soyo Dragan Ultra's digital passthru' is limited to two channel. Tried its built in 6 channel processor, it sucks.
8500's autodetection of the monitor thru' DVI is limiting me. Havent played around for a couple of weeks now. Need to figure out a way to override radeon detection.
> > Despite that, I had problems with horizontal and vertical lines outside the image area, excessive flicker (even at 72hz), artificial color, picture grain, average sound, etc.
Can your projector do 72Hz? It might be converting it into 30 or 60Hz and generating artifacts in the process.
***How are you processing audio?***Stereo only (I use Duos in that setup). Soundblaster Live to preamp via SPDIF or analog. Both are average.
***Can your projector do 72Hz?***
Yes
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