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I watched Lord of the Rings on DVD Saturday night. All I have for sound right now is stereo with a HK PM 665 integrated amp and a pair of B&W 602s3, hence "2.0".I have to say even in just stereo I was quite impressed by the sound. I don't have my speakers set up to be optimal throughout the room. There's one sweet spot about a foot wide where MY chair sits when we watch movies. In that seat, the scene with the fight against the cave troll in Moria was amazing. The sound came from all around, even from the rear. There was several moments when I could have sworn I had rear speakers. I literally heard things from behind me, 100% behind me! not bleeding through to the front where the speakers are.
I've heard of recording techniques that uses proper phasing, delays and such to simulate 3D sound with just to channels. I thought it only worked well with head phones. I don't know what they did with the stereo track on LofRs but I was way impressed.
Oh and even though the sound wasn't as loud or as deep as the sound in the theater, it was way way crisper and cleaner on my B&Ws. I think that once I add the sub, HT receiver, and rears, the sound it going to be so much better than the theater that I'll have a hard time spending 2 or 3 times $9 for me, wife, eventually kid, when I can get a DVD six months later for $18. And, no $5 for overly salted popcorn.
-Ken
Follow Ups:
I'm a DTS fan, but I've got to say LOTR 5.1 mix was seamless with the surround effects and very dynamic. This was probably the best sounding track I've heard to date, and that includes the DTS tracks I've heard. VERY impressive.
Anyone notice how loud it was ? I found myself turning it down 5db (from my normal movie volume).
in our HT rig, too.ATC has rather wide dispersion, the system is not suffering from
narrow sweet spot either.
Depends on the software and hardware, the stage and image placement improve significantly.Especialy, a small room like ours I found less speaker array partnered with resolving gear
can actualy create more natural and realistic sound reproduction than
ill-matched-all-out speaker assault.
If so, there's some setup issue you could probably fool around with if you feel like it. I'm afraid it's potentially time-consuming, but not necessarily expensive to adjust. The 2.0 mix should sound better since it was mixed appropriately for no center, compared to the 5.1 mix with no center. For that you're relying on your decoder/gear maker to compensate adequately, and they don't always (at least to my taste). That was what I noticed when I didn't do the center properly at first, just tried a bunch of speakers pulled from different systems in that position, no luck. What I'm saying is, because my initial trials sucked, that does not mean that it isn't better when more properly done. I think everybody tries to use no center at first when they get frustrated (judging by posts), it *does* sound worse with an ill-suited one. Just my experience/taste of course...
lack of space and flexibility.As you've noticed, badly set up CC speaker does more harm than not having one.
With unlimited funds and space, I do think that properly done 5.1 in an appropriate room
would be a nice bonus.But in our current set up with a direct view TV in the middle in a very limited
real estate, I think no center channel can get a fair shake.For now, I can *work with* 4.1 set up. ( and yep. it is still evolving )
evangelist, probably annoying. I have spent a lot of time moving stuff around, positioning speakers, auditioning speakers, changing electronics config etc. This HT stuff is NOT a no-brainer, especially when you consider most people (not here, in general) don't even have 2 speakers set up half-decently. I have put a lot of effort into it, and though my setup isn't expensive, I am pleased with the way it works in a not very big room. The junk does take up a lot of space, then you have to sit so far from the screen so it looks right, mount the speakers so they sound right where you're sitting, etc. etc. So many decisions.But the center and the sub were what I wasted most time on. You can throw either in a room and plug them in, but it's amazing how annoying they can be if you do that. To me they ruined things, I didn't appreciate that they (obviously, now) require consideration like the rest of the gear. It's a learning process, and it's no wonder many people consider the whole thing gimmicky, because I see typical systems even at showrooms are just thrown together. The centerpiece is the nice display, and the sound is given little consideration it seems. But we appreciate the sound, so maybe it just seems more important to us, I think most people don't care so much.
*The centerpiece is the nice display, and the sound is given little consideration it seems. But we
appreciate the sound, so maybe it just seems more important to us, I think most people don't
care so much. *After all, HT entertainment is two-fold: visual and aural pleasure/excellence.
( it sure makes it much more expensive proposition than 2 channel. )But from my two channel listening habit, I can fill in what's lacking
from visual ( nothing much I can improve here out of 32" direct view'
without even a progressive scan ) by creating believable sound reproduction.It is too bad, like you said, the sound part of the HT systems at most
dealers is served up as a second banana.I think most people respond better to the visual stimulation and loud boom 'n' sizzle ( the sound
that impresses owners as well as their neighbors in a short run) than subtle aural ques
that make up a complete whole.
With a direct view, you can sit much closer than I can. And you can benefit from near(er) field listening. That's usually better anyway. I have a setup with a much smaller screen than yours. I like it too. But it's different since it's cosier. There's something about when you expand the space you want to fill with the "experience", the requirements go up exponentially. Better to keep the space small if you want to keep it simple, I made the mistake (?) of trying to make the system friendlier to more people, different requirements, makes you appreciate the people who set up good large theatres.
that's the lesson I've learned from two channel set up I forgot.Or match the equipement used to the room *if* no dedicated room is
available. Not the other way around. ( easier to deal with in a long run )Interesting you say how many people you want to accomodate as well as
monitor used change things.
Well, my small system is in my bedroom...how many do you think I should *reasonably* accomodate in there, at once? Probably more than I can get...I just meant that when I went for the larger screen in the main room, the required longer viewing distance allowed for more viewers, and a different sound arrangement. The big screens IMO don't look so good from close up, I mean you have the same quality video source on a similar quality (to the big) small screen and it looks better, so you have to sit farther away for things to be good with the big screen. When you sit farther away, the sound has to fill a larger area, etc. etc.
I originally had a small separate viewing room, and I decided to make it more "public". That was a conscious decision, and basically the HT gear I already had didn't survive the transition to the larger room. I didn't realise that would be the case when I started, even though it should have been obvious...so yes, the gear has to be chosen specifically for the room.
Just my 2 cents... As you have said setup is a big part of the equation for center channels. At the same time, the type of room you have can allow you to work without a centre, if your main speakers image correctly. My Linn Helix soundstage great and in a number of cases I switch to stereo mode to listen/watch a movie because otherwise all the info would come out of the center only. Also where everyone seats makes it possible to live without the centre (even though I have one). On properly mixed action movies in DTS, I notice the value of the 5 speakers more, than on dramas that are mostly dialogue anyway.
Agree, the majority of DVD movies I have have 99% of the sound in the center. So then I switch to a stereo-derived mode, sometimes with "stereo" from all my "7.1" speakers. Actually, every movie is different. I notice I have been preferring the analog 5.1 outputs from my new DVDP over the digital output. I try not to screw around with things too much, I swear I make my sound method determination and level adjustments (all movies sure aren't the same) within the first 5 minutes, then don't touch it again for the rest of the movie.
Agreed. For all the fuss the industry makes about the "quality" of thier product, some of it sure is junk.
Perhaps your correct here... I'd have always wondered why so many people here seem to find no center better than having one for sweet-spot movie watching.Perhaps it is that some people don't use a speaker designed as a center with wide horizonal dispersion? Or that they place the speaker in the wrong place, or at the wrong angle?
I found that getting the center to the correct angle took some time, but in my setup the results were well worth it. The sound had a certain fullness added to somehow, and it really works much better for movies. Besides their is only one sweet-spot, the center makes it much nicer for your family or company.
surprisingly, I am not suffering from 'one-man-only' sweet spot
syndrome without sacrificing image stability. Altho, it does varies
by equipment used.I'm guessing it's because the way speaker themselves are designed
( some speakers just have wider dispersion pattern than others )
as well as they are apart only by 8 ft or so.
Agreed, one of the few non-DTS 5.1 recordings that have blown me away! It would be a great candidate for Superbit!Sam
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The HT forums are saying LOTR/FOTR is a reference quality soundtrack in 5.1I wasn't expecting much in 2.0 but was amazed at the mix through my Alons, which, thank God, go deep. I don't know how they mixed that huge soundscape down to two channels while still preserving the integrity of the original. The people who mixed this soundtrack cared about what they were doing and they were GOOD.
I agree with you about the popcorn, but I'll still take the theatrical experience - if done well. A friend manages an AMC multi-plex in my town. I saw LOTR there when it opened, on a 50-60' screen, with a fabulous DTS surround system properly calibrated - WOW. Many theatrical exhibitors present films in a sloppy manner, and that is an over-priced experience. But done right, it can be magic there in the dark with an audience.
at least the best balanced and involving I have heard at home. Smooth and clean, not lacking or over-bearing, ambience far superior to most, they really used the rears this time. I don't suppose it could have been much better in dts at home, but it would be interesting to hear. You know, when they can fit this quality video and sound for such a long movie on one disc, it makes you feel short shrifted on lots of other DVD's.
Too many different brogues and Cockneys and Germanic voices coming at me!!!
Or you could turn on the captioning or subtitles...we won't tell anyone. I recall one DVD I watched lately that had automatic English subtitles for some parts of the English dialog, forget which movie, think it was while an Australian was talking...
They redubbed parts of Trainspotting for the U.S. release to make it easier on our ears. (I think that The Road Warrior was also dubbed for U.S. release.) The Acid House, another Scottish movie based on Irvine Welsh's short stories (and featuring the guy who played "Spud" in Trainspotting), is subtitled - I could not understand anything being said in that film.
the one I have, touts its "Australian English" 5.1 surround and mono (original) tracks, and has "English dubbed" mono too. My The Road Warrior version just has the regular understandable English.I don't have trouble understanding Australians myself, it's certain Scottish and north/western British accents I sometimes have trouble with. And certain Newfoundlandish.
Rhyming Cockney slang... They even give you a guide to help you understand it.Great movie! The movie you were referring to was Snatch. Brad Pitt as an Irish gypsy. Even the characters in the movie couldn't understand him...
My setup had N805s driven by an Electrocompaniet integrated...but
same effect: great sound that totally drew you into the movie.
Well you should lend me your 805s and other stuff and I should lend you my 602s and other stuff and we can watch it again and compare the difference. I'm sure I'd get around to it with in few months :-)
I've got enough other toys to keep me busy, but the N805/Electrocompaniet combo is "not to be changed" according to my wife. Though if I win the lottery, I bet she'd approve of replacing the N805 with the signature versions :)
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