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In Reply to: What is the problem with this 5.1 system? posted by Audio Girl on October 01, 2002 at 13:18:50:
My best guess wouyld be to fiddle with the center channel delay.Is the center channel in the same horizontal plane as the main left and right speaker? If yes, you need to add (+) delay to the center channel in the Yamaha speaker setup menu.
Your center channel delay can be represented in ms. or ft., it doesn't matter. You should try listening to the DVD with the center channel delay at +1, +2, or +3 or more and see if the dialog is easier to understand.
Follow Ups:
It will depend on whether or not the audio or the video has a longer processing chain. But if you're not careful, you may notice that your A/V system reminds you of the old "kung-fu" movies and their English overdubs. It may help with the dialogue clarity, but lips that don't match up with the words isn't the compromise you'll want to make.
Joe,I think if you read my message again you will notice I discussed center channel positioning in relation to main speakers.
For correct 5.1 placement the center speaker will need to be in a plane behind the main speakers, e.g. place front left, center and front right on an "arc" using the listening position as the radius point.
If, in fact, the center speaker is lined up in the same plane as the mains (it's actually closer to the listening position than the mains in this position), you will need to add delay to get the sound synchronized.
My point in cautioning against using delay compensation was this:> > > It may help with the dialogue clarity, but lips that don't match up with the words isn't the compromise you'll want to make. < < <
See? I agreed that it "may" help with the dialogue issues, but again, "lips that don't match up with the words... ".
I'll give you an example using my wife's living room setup. The three front speakers are set up straight across -- not in an arc (yes, I've known that it's technically incorrect for many, many moons, but...). To compensate for the difference in distance of the center vs the left and right speakers, the delay should be increased for the center. Agreed? However, the video processing time from the output of the laserdisc player or the DVD player to the output on the screen is much (yes, a fraction of a second = much -- HA HA HA!) shorter than the audio processing time from the laserdisc player or DVD player through the surround processor, 5.1 analog inputs on the surround receiver and then to the speakers. Know what happens when I delay the center channel by more than 1ms? I get audio dialogue not matching video lips! Therefore, I set the center delay to 0ms and the lips match the dialogue that I hear. Pick your poison. As for me, I'd rather have the dialogue match the moving lips. Last time I checked, except for those great kung-fu movies (he he he), that's the way it happens in real life.
:-)Please keep in mind that I am not saying that Audio Girl will have these lip-sync issues. She may or may not. It will depend on her system and audio vs video processing times.*
I have never seen nor heard the speakers in question, but I believe that bhjazz posted a possible reason (well done Mr Holmes!) for the dialogue problem below. Then again, though I didn't specifically address the speaker, I too posted a (generic) cure for the sensitivity issue --the SPL meter.
By the way, some of the newer (pricey) surround receivers and processors are including a delay feature to compensate for the processing time of video processors, plasmas, etc. This is for all of the channels -- not just center and surround channels. Of course, it's just the opposite of what happens in the wife's system.
* such as in the example given above
Yes, I understand your point, it's just that I don't find it to be a commonly observed phenomenon by that many people, unless you are using separate video scalers with projectors which do introduce their own video delay.Dialog clarity is much more important to me anyway, in fact sound is much more important period.
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