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I understand the need for it in theaters, where most of the audience will not be in the sweet spot of the front speakers - the center channel can then be used to ensure that everyone in the theater perceives voices, etc. as coming from the appropriate place on the screen.In a home setup, if you are in the sweetspot of the stereo front speakers, wouldn't this be unnecessary (assuming the processor effectively mixes the center channel out to the 2 front speakers)? I had some limited time experimenting with a friends HT system, and on most movies preferred the sound without the center channel (although I did have to set up his front speakers differently to get decent imaging).
Currently I have a stereo setup, but have recently upgraded speakers and will upgrade my amp. Rather than selling 10+ year old amp and speakers, I figured that I could use them for surrounds (resulting in more cost effective and higher quality surround than I could afford otherwise). The old speakers are a reasonably close timbral match to my new ones. My overall goal is to achieve decent HT sound while not disrupting my very good stereo sound system.
Has anyone tried this on a good quality system they are familiar with?
JB
PS: current system
AR ES-1 turntable/AQ PT5 tonearm/Blue point special
Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista preamp
B&K EX442 amp (soon to be upgraded?)
Epos ES22 speakers (replaced JSE model 1 speakers)
DVD/CD player TBD (my old cd player is now out of commission)
Nakamichi BX300 tapedeck
In my experience, limited to 2 HT installs, and IMO:System Macro-Dynamics:
This is an extremely important aspect of movie reproduction; soundtracks, especially the 5.1 formats, push systems pretty hard. Compression is one of those relatively unspoken of nasty facts in the HT world.
If you direct all center channel information to Front L+R, you are asking those speakers and amp(s) to handle more work. This can result in increased compression of both the center channel information as well as Front L+R information.
System Micro-Dynamics:
You may well experience compromised center channel performance at this level as well. As your Front L+R speakers are reproducing their respective channels of information, nuances of dialog may just get lost.
I have run my system(s) both with and without a center channel. Dolby Logic and ProLogic sources sound OK. However, I definitely prefer the sound of a center channel in my system for these sources. For 5.1 sources, I find a center channel speaker(s) a must. There is a wealth of information on that channel, and to do it justice requires a dedicated amp channel and speakers.Note that I've not mentioned anything about an anchored image, etc. You definitely can have that without having a center channel speaker, no argument.
And, finally, YMMV.
Have fun!
A factor not yet mentioned is the front speakers separation as compared to the with of the video screen. If the speakers are set a good bit farther apart than the screen width, then the center speaker can be valuable in anchoring the dialog on screen.(My Klipschorns must be in the corners, so spacing is determined by the size of the room. I find the center speaker helpful.)
BTW
If you use a center, use the same speaker, or one of identical tambre. Magnetic shielding can be a problem, but I put a LaScala above a 43" by 34" screen (54" diagonal) rear projector TV. The video tubes are at the bottom and are far enough away from the LaScala. And don't put a heavy speaker on top of the RPTV set itself. It will bow the frame and distort the screen!
I built a shelf that tilts down to point the tweeter at the listener. This minimizes ceiling reflections. The result was very much improved clarity (dialog inteligibility).
If you turn the volume up in the dialog and down for the loud bits, what you really need is to improve inteligibility. Room treatments help too.
Particularly if you use the system, as some of us do, for music as well as video. Like Haydn, I tried the centre channel, first with cheap speakers (a disaster) and finally with electrostatics idential to the main stereo pair. However I found I shut them off for music and eventually pulled them out altogether as redundant. In most normal rooms they are completely unecessary and are only pushed by dealers to sell more gear.John
I have never tried the center that goes with my Revel Studios, although given the cost of Revel's center channel and appropriate amplification, I can think of a lot of music-oriented ways I can spend that money.Still, I never feel like something's missing when I watch a movie. The system images well enough that the dialog stays centered on the screen and the music typically has a larger soundstage.
Hi Jon. I've had my system both ways. Its a music first
system but I do a fare share of home theater and concert
laserdiscs and dvd's. In my experience, sure if you're
in the sweet spot no real problem, but as you get off
axis with some speakers listeners outside the sweet spot
will experience a collaspe of the front soundstage into
the nearest speaker. My Vandersteen 1C's have a wider than
average horizontal sweet spot and thus I was able to do
pretty good without a center for a while,but ended up
getting one anyway for an excellent soundstage&imaging at
either end of the sofa. My listening room is on the small
side which further facilitates the need for a center. The
further back you are from the front soundstage the less
there is a perceived collaspe into either left or right
speaker from an off-axis position in my experience. If you're the only one watching movies or in a decent size
(read medium to large) room then you might need one as much as the other scenario (smaller room with many viewers,meaning some will be off-axis). Hope this helps.
Thanks - it does help. My HT listening will be primarily on axis, and the room is 15x20, so I think I will try a set up minus the center for a while and see what happens.By the way, the journal at the www.audioperfectionist.com link mentioned below also discusses this issue - this turned out to be a very interesting link.
JB
Actually UHF magazine discussed this a couple of years ago and stated that a centre channel was redunant in most situations, if the stereo speakers are set up properly. Remember most dialogue is a mono recording, so even sitting off axis should not be a big problem. Of course too far off axis and it will seem the voice is coming from somewhere else, not from the actor talking.
When the main "stereo" speakers are set up properly, there is no problem and a center channel speaker is an unnecessary redudancy.
.... is there such a thing as a necessary redundancy ???hehe :)
Yes...just take a look at Windows system files!!!!! Hehehe!
...Windozezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
michael w
Lol. Ah if only Steve Jobs was not an immature jerk, we could all be using Apple systems and that Gates fellow would be selling pencils on a street corner.
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