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In Reply to: Recomendation for HDTV recievers ?? posted by Bahr on October 17, 2003 at 22:59:12:
I'm not familiar with any Samsung OTA HDTV tuner problems. You might be talking about the previous model SIR-T151. I have the SIR-T351 which looks pretty much the same from the outside but it may have a couple extra features like the digital DVI output on the back panel. I drive my Sony 34XBR800 TV via DVI from the Samsung SIR-T351 w/o any problems.I'm watching the Denver Broncos get stomped by the Minnesota Vikings in HDTV right now. Even the audio is in Dolby Digital 5.1. Very nice! Oh crap... Vikings just scored another T.D. 21 to 7 Minnesota.
Samsung SIR-T351 HDTV Tuner
Follow Ups:
I would be very cautious about the Samsung HDTV units. At the very least, make sure the place you buy it from has a 30-day (or better) return policy with $0 restocking fees or other penalties.Here's my Samsung HDTV experience (so far), plugging it into a Samsung SDTV (480p) 27" television with Monster component cables, and using a Denon 3801 AV receiver for Dolby Digital 5.1 sound with Monster optical cable:
- Six weeks ago I bought the Samsung SIR-T151. I had to buy a couple of different indoor antennas to find one that worked best in my ground-floor apartment (tough situation for reception, I know). Found the Zenith Silver Sensor ZHDTV1 to work best, by the way, though it's highly directional and I have to move it manually to receive different channels.
- The Samsung SIR-T151 worked pretty good with one exception: on any Dolby Digital 5.1 audio (but not 2-channel digital audio), the unit would stop decoding the sound about every thirty minutes or so, leaving nothing but silence. After a lot of troubleshooting and experimenting, I found that the only way I could restore the sound was to switch to a different (non DD 5.1) HDTV channel, then switch back to the original channel. That would force the unit to "find" the DD 5.1 audio again and it would start outputting sound again. Of course, every 20-30 minutes I would have to repeat the process when the sound stopped. This was most annoying when watching Monday Night Football.
- Realizing the store I bought this unit from (Good Guys in Portland) has a 30-day return policy, I took the unit back toward the end of the 30-days and got a refund. Then I drove literally across the street to Circuit City and bought the newer Samsung SIR-T351, thinking that surely Samsung has corrected the Dolby Digital output errors of the earlier SIR-T151 unit. . . .
- Well, not only are the Dolby Digital output errors WORSE on this Samsung SIR-T351 unit (now the errors are more sporadic and they happen on every program, not just ones with Dolby Digital 5.1), but I also have a new problem: this SIR-T351 won't decode the Portland CBS affiliate's HDTV broadcast signal! This to me is bizarre. I can tune the channel (40), and I can go into the settings menu and verify that I'm receiving a strong signal, but there is absolutely no sound or picture. I'm only guessing, but it's possible that Portland's CBS affiliate uses a different ATSC signal standard (aren't there 18 different standards?) than the other local HDTV stations, and this particular unit that I bought has a defect in its circuitry that keeps it from properly decoding the CBS signal, even though it obviously is receiving it. (I received the local CBS affiliate just fine on the SIR-T151 unit, by the way.)
- Whew! So now I'm about 1 week into my ownership of the Samsung SIR-T351, and I guarantee you that it's going back to Circuit City in 3 weeks when the 30-day return policy is almost over. Because I couldn't pick up the CBS HDTV affiliate yesterday, I had to watch that thrilling multi-overtime Tennessee/Alabama college football game in crummy worse-than-NTSC-quality standard DISHNetwork format.
- When I return that faulty Samsung SIR-T351 unit, hopefully the new DISHNetwork OTA+satellite HDTV receivers (model #811 or something like that?) will be available for purchase and I'll give that one a try.
I suppose I'll just keep buying different OTA HDTV receivers (there aren't many though; most are DirecTV) until I find one that works right. I guess that's the curse of being an "early adopter" of new technology?
Craig.
Thanks for the heads up.....Well, I avoided the Samsung and got the ZENETH 420 on sale at
Jansen Beach Circuit City (picked unit up at the 82nd/ Clackamus store).......
Am very pleased and no malfunctions ......Put up a $29 RadioShack outdoor antenna and now recieve all the stations......
hBar
Sony XBR 910 w/Zeneth HD box
Thanks for the mention of the Zenith OTA HDTV unit at Circuit City. I was looking at it last night online and it appears to have all the features that the Samsung offered (but hopefully *without* all the bugs and defects!).Unless I can find another OTA HDTV unit for under $400 to try, I will be trading in my lousy Samsung SIR-T351 unit for that Zenith at Circuit City in a few weeks.
Why am I not getting the DishNetwork satellite+OTA HDTV 811 unit I mentioned in my first followup to this thread?
Because I called DishNetwork yesterday and they said that new HDTV unit has been delayed from the originally announced November 1st ship date. Now they "hope" that it will be out sometime before the end of the year. I'm not going to hold my breath. If they realize they probably can't get it out in time for the Christmas shopping season, then what's the rush? It could end up being a six month delay or longer!
(Just thought I'd add that information in case anyone else was expecting to go out and get that new DishNetwork HDTV 811 unit next week.)
Craig.
How do you know that the 'bugs and defects' are Samsung and not the broadcasts themselves? The technology is still new. I own the Samsung SIR-T351 and haven't experienced any of the problems you describe. Dobly Digital 5.1 will decode just fine and if there's a signal present, there is also a picture and audio to go along with it. I do get the occasional and very brief (milliseconds) audio drop-out but this is not a Samsung fault. There are others here who experience the same audio drop-out with HDTV over satellite using non-Samsung gear.
Good question. To be fair, I'm not 100% sure of my conclusions, but here the evidence that led me to a reasonably confident belief that the Samsung unit I purchased is to blame, not the broadcasts themselves (and possibly not even Samsung units in general; maybe I just got "lucky" twice and got another defective individual unit!):SUMMARY:
The characteristics of the "bugs & defects" changed within the 6 hour window of time it took me to unhook and box up the old SIR-T151 unit, drive to the store to return it, go across the street to buy a new SIR-T351 unit, return home and hook the new SIR-T351 up. Furthermore, the "bugs & defects" that were characteristic of the old SIR-T151 have not exhibited themselves in the new SIR-T351 unit. It's possible that, during that same 6 hour window of time, Portland's HDTV broadcasters (specifically both the ABC and CBS affiliates) altered their broadcasts somehow. But obviously that's a stretch and it's more likely the units I installed are to blame.
DETAILS:The Samsung SIR-T151 unit exhibited the following "bugs & defects" characteristics:
1. Watching HDTV programming that includes Dolby Digital 5.1* sound, I noticed that every 20-30 minutes the SIR-T151 unit would become silent and would remain so indefinitely. My troubleshooting efforts sought to systematically isolate the source of this periodic silence. I replaced the new digital optical cable I was using with a known good one. This did not make a difference. I tested the original digital optical cable with my DVD player's digital output to verify that it's a good cable. It is. I tried switching my receiver's audio inputs, in an effort to "re-train" the DD 5.1 signal coming from the Samsung unit into the receiver. No good; I still heard only silence, even after turning the receiver off and back on again! This indicated to me that it was not a problem with my receiver (which has *never* had even the slightest hiccup with any digital or analog audio inputs!). So, having ruled out the cables and the receiver, I turned my attention to troubleshooting the Samsung unit itself. Bingo! I found that I could consistently "re-train" the DD 5.1 signal by momentarily changing channels from ABC's DD 5.1 broadcast to any other HDTV channel, then immediately switching it back. Without exception (I tried this at least 20 times because it happened so frequently during Monday Night Football's DD 5.1 broadcasts), the DD 5.1 sound would immediately be restored after this momentary channel-change action. Of course, 20-30 minutes later the sound would go silent again, but at least knew how to manipulate the defective Samsung unit to restore sound at this point.
(*DD 5.1 is included mainly in ABC's programming in my experience; other networks seem primarily to transmit a two-channel digital signal that's compatible with Dolby Pro-Logic, but not true DD 5.1.)
2. This DD 5.1 silence problem was the only defect I noticed in the Samsung SIR-T151 unit that I had. Maybe I was being "greedy," but I didn't like the hassle of implementing my DD 5.1 defect workaround every Monday night during the football game. Plus, I figured as more programming switched to true DD 5.1 sound, I would experience more and more manifestations of this defect. So I decided to return the unit and "upgrade" to the SIR-T351, which was selling for the same $399 price across the street from Good Guys (at Circuit City).
3. As a reference note, I should add here that the Samsung SIR-T151 unit I had could receive the local CBS HDTV broadcasts with a strong signal and no audio or video problems at all. This is an important note compared to the SIR-T351's defects, described below.The Samsung SIR-T351 unit exhibited the following "bugs & defects" characteristics:
1. The DD 5.1 defect exhibited in the SIR-T151 unit (see above) did *not* reappear in the newer SIR-T351 unit. However, a new problem occurs instead: while the digital optical audio output is set to "Dolby Digital" in the preferences, I am now experiencing brief (1-2 seconds at the most) audio dropouts on *every* channel. These audio dropouts are different than those exhibited on the SIR-T151 unit in three ways: (1) they happen on all channels and during all programming, not just true DD 5.1 programming; (2) they only last a couple of seconds, compared to indefinitely as on the SIR-T151; and (3) they "correct" themselves, so momentarily switching channels manually is no longer required for correction. This time, I skipped troubleshooting the cables and the receiver, assuming that those components were still okay based on troubleshooting the SIR-T151's defects. Instead, I concentrated on the SIR-T351, and I discovered that I could get rid of almost all audio dropouts by switching the SIR-T351 unit's preferences from "Dolby Digital" to "PCM." Now I can enjoy continuous sound without dropouts, but I can no longer enjoy the enhanced clarity and discrete surround sound characteristics of Dolby Digital 5.1. So again, this workaround is not acceptable to me; it deprives me of the DD 5.1 audio advantages of HDTV, compared to "regular" TV.
2. Not only do I feel like I evenly traded one type of audio defect in the SIR-T151 for a different but equally annoying defect in the SIR-T351, but I was in for a second rude surprise when I tried to watch CBS HDTV. The problem is that I no longer can view CBS HDTV with the SIR-T351! I have not moved my antenna from the location that provided a strong CBS signal in the SIR-T151, so I know that's not the problem. Furthermore, I can go into the SIR-T351's preferences and verify that I'm receiving the CBS HDTV signal as strong. However, there is no picture or sound, only a graphic that says "No Signal," directly contradicting the signal strength meter in the SIR-T351's preferences.In my opinion, I am worse off with the SIR-T351 than I was with the SIR-T151, because now I have to deal with two major defects, rather than one.
Finally, for the sake of completeness, I will list a couple of things I do like better about the SIR-T351 compared to the SIR-T151 (not nearly enough to make up for the defects, though):
1. The graphics and organization on the preferences menus are improved.
2. The SIR-T351 picks up two more local HDTV broadcast channels than the SIR-T151 could (using the exact same antenna, positioning, etc.). However, those two extra channels are the local WB and UPN affiliates, two networks that show absolutely nothing I'm interested in watching. The plus side, though, is that apparently they have improved the quality of the tuner in the SIR-T351, compared to the earlier SIR-T151 unit.There's always the chance, in writing these online reviews, that one person's findings are the result of an exceptionally defective unit. I realize this may be the case with my situation (twice!). However, at the least my experiences may indicate that Samsung's engineering and/or quality control is not as good as it should be, so I still think it's valuable for me to document my experiences publicly.
I am still trying to decide whether I should return this (apparently) defective SIR-T351 for another unit of the same brand/model.
Other than the defects, I'm happy with the way the unit functions in general. Until my experiences with these two Samsung's HDTV receivers, I was a HUGE fan of the company's products going all the way back to a nifty little 13" color TV from Samsung that I used to own back in the mid-1980s! So I assure you that I have no personal vendetta against Samsung; I'm sincerely disappointed that I'm having these troubles with a Samsung product.
That's probably the only reason I'm considering giving a third Samsung HDTV receiver a chance. Whether I get another Samsung, or decide to go for the Zenith instead, I will try to post an updated report to this forum.
I'm happy for those of you who are reporting no (or minor) problems with your Samsung HDTV receivers. I wouldn't wish my problems on anyone, and hopefully I can join your satisfied ranks eventually.
Craig.
I have the same problem with my T151. On every channel, about every 5 minutes on average, the sound drops out for about 2 seconds. I am using dolby 5.1 with the optical output. It is really starting to annoy me. Who do I contact at Samsung to get this fixed?
By your description it does appear as though your problems are related to the Samsung tuners. I'd be curious to know how strong your HDTV signal strength readings are on the Samsung bargraphs. I'm using an outdoor UHF antenna and the signal strength on most channels is at least 6 bars consistantly and more on a couple channels. My signal strength varies a little from time to time. I'm wondering if your problems might be related to marginal signal strength for the Samsung tuner. Please let us know how things work out and if you do end up with a Zenith tuner it would be very interesting to know how it performs compared to the Samsung units in your setup.
I have tried two SIR-T351 units and both have identical problems. The Dolby Digital drops out constantly. It does not matter what signal strength. I have channels at different strengths between 40 and 100.I know of a third unit that has this problem also.
Samsung, so far, has listened to my complaints, but has not acted on them.
The three units that have identical problems were produced in July of 2003 (look at the sticker on the side of your unit).
Does anyone have a unit that works 100%. If so, what is the production date??
Thanks for any input.
Are you cable or sat guy? Dish Net or Direct TV? I hear that Dish Net is superior.
I'm enjoying HDTV broadcasts from ABC CBS NBC FOX and PBS via my antenna and HDTV tuner. Many prime time network programs and NFL games are in HiDef and PBS programs are also outstanding. I may get DirecTV or DiSH one of these days bur for now I'm having fun with just the HDTV tuner and antenna.
Ditto.......Bahr
s
I hear that DirecTV has more sports packages if thats important to you. I'd have to compare their program offerings and pricing before I made a buying decision. I also believe that Dish requires you to use THEIR set-top-box rather than giving you several choices of Hughes, Mitsubishi, Sony, Samsung, etc as DirecTV does. I would also have to figure out how they handle and charge for local channels.
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