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In Reply to: Re: Questions on projectors.... posted by monk on January 07, 2004 at 02:53:51:
Monk,What an outstanding post - thanks so much. It is exactly what I needed, while I had a sense of individual components, this pulls it all together. I am in the middle of constructing a HT room in my basement (it will still be a couple of months till its done) and I'm trying to gather all the info I can get. After 35 years of 2 channel, this is new stuff with me.
Funny you mention the Denon 3803, it is the receiver I have my eyes on (available for under $700 at at least 1 authorized dealer). I've been thinking of FP (DLP), the two units I have my eyes on are the Sanyo Z2 or the Panasonic L500U. I'm thinking of a Dish satellite, although cable may be a choice. I certainly will go w/ HD.
I guess when I start assembling the gear it will all come together. My knowledge of display units are based on a 15+ year old 27" TV and a 10+ year old VCR. Component, S-Video, DVI, etc. are all foreign to me. My old brain may overload, but thanks for the great overview!!
Follow Ups:
Bob, Have you seen the Z2 and the AE500?
They looked very different to me.
I think you'll be glad you chose FP.
I've been involved with FP for a couple years
and will be happy to try and answer any questions you have.
Just a clarification...both those projectors you stated are LCD units...not DLP.
Hello Bob, I'm happy to hear the post helped (and that you didn't mind my often terrible spelling :-)As far as the connections etc., just get a progressive scan DVD player and use a component video connection to the display. Progressive DVD players are so common now it's hard to buy one that doesn't have it - At most you should need an adapter cable to adapt the regular cable to the type of plug/input used on the projector/display. You can order a cable online that'll have the 3 rca's for the component connection to the DVD player on one end and the kind of plug your projector needs on the other (looks like the plug that goes into your computer monitor) - though more and more projectors have the regular rca inputs for the component. Either way it's the same signal, just a matter of physically getting it plugged in.
> Funny you mention the Denon 3803, it is the receiver I have
> my eyes onWhile the 3803 is probably a bit better, I got the 1804 and feel it is a little better deal. The DA convertors may not be quite what the 3803 has, but I honestly doubt many people would be able to tell much of a difference. The other good part is that it handles plenty of AV switching... 2 component ins and 4 S/Composite ins. Slightly lower wattage and "only", but it's plenty loud. Also, it's "only" 6.1 instead of 7.1, but last time I checked the standard recorded on media was 5.1. The 1804 is about $200-300 cheaper than the 3803 and is now slouch on features comparitively. You might want to check it out before you go overboard.
Check out the back panel of the 1804 .
A few things strike me,...first is that the back panel says the 1804 is rated to drive speakers rated at 6 ohms and above Vs. the 3803 can handle 4 ohm speakers. Driving 5, 6 or 7 speakers is tough work and there's real value in having a more robust current handling ability (this is just not more watts, it's able to handle a tougher electrical load at the same watt level).Second, ...the 1803 can do video switching with component inputs - But can it up-convert S-Video and Composite to Component and thus output all video signals to the display via a single connection? I have a projector 20 feet from the electronics and it's far nicer having a single high quality component cable running from the Denon 3803 to the projector. With most comparable receivers, and I'd guess all less expensive ones, including the 1804, I don't think you get this feature (prior to the 3803 you had to buy the 5800 flagship series to get the S-Video/Composite up-conversion to component video compatability). Note that the up-conversion just allows all the signals to go out on the component line, the S-Video picture would still be S-Video quality, not component.
Finally there's the question of video bandwidth,...I liked HDTV video routed through a 3803 more than through the 3802 and the difference was probably the wider bandwidth video handling ability of the 3803.
In many instances and installations I agree with you, for many, many situations, lots of owners would be just as pleased with one of these Denon's as the other. But there are situations where the difference is worth springing for (demanding speakers, higher-end video displays in the system etc.).
Bo
> the back panel says the 1804 is rated to drive speakers rated at 6
> ohms and above Vs. the 3803 can handle 4 ohm speakers. Driving 5, 6
> or 7 speakers is tough work and there's real value in having a more
> robust current handling ability (this is just not more watts, it's
> able to handle a tougher electrical load at the same watt level).Are you sure the 3803 can handle 4 ohms? I looked on the picture and in the specs and it seems to be marked as 6-16 ohms as well. If it can handle 4 ohms then there is value in the 3803 over the 1804 if you own 4 ohm speakers; however, if you're driving 8 ohm speakers (the vast majority of speakers on the market) then you're going to see no advantage there. As for the current handling, I believe both receivers use separate amps for each channel. The 3803 has higher wattage capabilities (110W @ 8 ohms vs. 90W @ 8 ohms for the 1804) and will probably sound slightly cleaner at higher volumes, but not $200 cleaner.
> can it up-convert S-Video and Composite to Component and thus output
> all video signals to the display via a single connection?In a word, no. I just checked out the 1804 manual and it says quite plainly that neither the compsite/S signal nor the component signals are interchangeable. In that, the 3803 has an advantage over the 1804. Good point on that one!
OK,...I could have the Denon 3803 4 ohm specification mixed up (?)I had a look at the online website and couldn't see a picture of the back. The online manual showed 6 to 16 ohm rating with all channels driven. They do rate power at 4 ohms, even at 2 ohms for stereo sound. But they may do the same for the 1804 (I only looked at the picture of the back and what was stated there, not at the 1804 pdf manual).
Even if I'm not mistaken (and I'll presume I'm wrong until I find out something concrete), I still would agree with your basic point, i.e., for very many users the 2 receivers would be equally good. And this being the case many people would enjoy having the extra hundreds neatly tucked into the wallet (where they belong !). And if I am mistaken, the same point would apply, only more so.
If I have made a mistake on the specs, sorry.
> If I have made a mistake on the specs, sorry.No apology needed! We're just sharing info, monk!
Also, I checked around and the lowest price I could find on the 3803 was $999. If anyone can snag it for $700 from an authorized dealer, I couldn't argue with that at all.
> I still would agree with your basic point, i.e., for very many users
> the 2 receivers would be equally good. And this being the case many
> people would enjoy having the extra hundreds neatly tucked into the
> wallet (where they belong!)Very true... unfortunately most of my friends don't agree and MUST have the best even though their rooms don't allow for it (my friend has a 12' x 8' home theatre room with all of this high end equipment crammed into it to the point of suffocation. It's hurts to hold my tongue after trying to make the point, but to each his own.
The 3803 can be had for $698.06 from 6Ave.com. The website lists the unit at $999.00 - call them (877-684-2831) and ask for the Denon 3803 deal. It is brand new (not refurbished) from an authorized dealer for $698.00 + .06 for shipping.
...only because I bought a bunch of other gear at the same time including a 34" 16:9 Sony XBR. If you can get the 3803 alone for $700, thats an awesome deal! Also, I needed the upconvert to component video feature and the 3803 was the only game in town at a reasonable price.
.
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