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In Reply to: Denon Receivers posted by Some Guy on January 08, 2004 at 05:57:51:
A few things strike me,...first is that the back panel says the 1804 is rated to drive speakers rated at 6 ohms and above Vs. the 3803 can handle 4 ohm speakers. Driving 5, 6 or 7 speakers is tough work and there's real value in having a more robust current handling ability (this is just not more watts, it's able to handle a tougher electrical load at the same watt level).Second, ...the 1803 can do video switching with component inputs - But can it up-convert S-Video and Composite to Component and thus output all video signals to the display via a single connection? I have a projector 20 feet from the electronics and it's far nicer having a single high quality component cable running from the Denon 3803 to the projector. With most comparable receivers, and I'd guess all less expensive ones, including the 1804, I don't think you get this feature (prior to the 3803 you had to buy the 5800 flagship series to get the S-Video/Composite up-conversion to component video compatability). Note that the up-conversion just allows all the signals to go out on the component line, the S-Video picture would still be S-Video quality, not component.
Finally there's the question of video bandwidth,...I liked HDTV video routed through a 3803 more than through the 3802 and the difference was probably the wider bandwidth video handling ability of the 3803.
In many instances and installations I agree with you, for many, many situations, lots of owners would be just as pleased with one of these Denon's as the other. But there are situations where the difference is worth springing for (demanding speakers, higher-end video displays in the system etc.).
Bo
Follow Ups:
> the back panel says the 1804 is rated to drive speakers rated at 6
> ohms and above Vs. the 3803 can handle 4 ohm speakers. Driving 5, 6
> or 7 speakers is tough work and there's real value in having a more
> robust current handling ability (this is just not more watts, it's
> able to handle a tougher electrical load at the same watt level).Are you sure the 3803 can handle 4 ohms? I looked on the picture and in the specs and it seems to be marked as 6-16 ohms as well. If it can handle 4 ohms then there is value in the 3803 over the 1804 if you own 4 ohm speakers; however, if you're driving 8 ohm speakers (the vast majority of speakers on the market) then you're going to see no advantage there. As for the current handling, I believe both receivers use separate amps for each channel. The 3803 has higher wattage capabilities (110W @ 8 ohms vs. 90W @ 8 ohms for the 1804) and will probably sound slightly cleaner at higher volumes, but not $200 cleaner.
> can it up-convert S-Video and Composite to Component and thus output
> all video signals to the display via a single connection?In a word, no. I just checked out the 1804 manual and it says quite plainly that neither the compsite/S signal nor the component signals are interchangeable. In that, the 3803 has an advantage over the 1804. Good point on that one!
OK,...I could have the Denon 3803 4 ohm specification mixed up (?)I had a look at the online website and couldn't see a picture of the back. The online manual showed 6 to 16 ohm rating with all channels driven. They do rate power at 4 ohms, even at 2 ohms for stereo sound. But they may do the same for the 1804 (I only looked at the picture of the back and what was stated there, not at the 1804 pdf manual).
Even if I'm not mistaken (and I'll presume I'm wrong until I find out something concrete), I still would agree with your basic point, i.e., for very many users the 2 receivers would be equally good. And this being the case many people would enjoy having the extra hundreds neatly tucked into the wallet (where they belong !). And if I am mistaken, the same point would apply, only more so.
If I have made a mistake on the specs, sorry.
> If I have made a mistake on the specs, sorry.No apology needed! We're just sharing info, monk!
Also, I checked around and the lowest price I could find on the 3803 was $999. If anyone can snag it for $700 from an authorized dealer, I couldn't argue with that at all.
> I still would agree with your basic point, i.e., for very many users
> the 2 receivers would be equally good. And this being the case many
> people would enjoy having the extra hundreds neatly tucked into the
> wallet (where they belong!)Very true... unfortunately most of my friends don't agree and MUST have the best even though their rooms don't allow for it (my friend has a 12' x 8' home theatre room with all of this high end equipment crammed into it to the point of suffocation. It's hurts to hold my tongue after trying to make the point, but to each his own.
The 3803 can be had for $698.06 from 6Ave.com. The website lists the unit at $999.00 - call them (877-684-2831) and ask for the Denon 3803 deal. It is brand new (not refurbished) from an authorized dealer for $698.00 + .06 for shipping.
...only because I bought a bunch of other gear at the same time including a 34" 16:9 Sony XBR. If you can get the 3803 alone for $700, thats an awesome deal! Also, I needed the upconvert to component video feature and the 3803 was the only game in town at a reasonable price.
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