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In Reply to: DVD obsolete? posted by Lep on February 12, 2004 at 05:14:26:
It's what I tell all my customers who buy a 73" Mits when they complain about the picture quality on all non-HD sources. many of them sit less than 18' away from the set, which of course will be too revealing of lower quality sources.
Follow Ups:
DVD is not unwatchable, but it is nothing compared to HDTV. You are right, moving back helps, but this is a bandaid fix. With HDTV you can sit where ever you want and it looks great ! My point is that I want to see everything in HDTV format now. When/how can I rent or playback HDTV format movies? I'm sure LoTR was filmed in HDTV..the question is how can I get it ? There has to be a way !!!! Will they have pay per view services? Are there HDTV recorders and playback units? DVD to HDTV is like Mono to Stereo, or Black and white to color....Its that good !
I would hope so. Or that is one low budget movie if they could afford to shoot the movie in 35mm or 70mm film lol
Film is ALOT higher res and color information than HDTV.Rule of thumb. Analog allways is a better format than anything digital.
I have a 51" SONY Hi Def RPTV and recieve Hi Def through a cable box.
This unit has 2/3 pull down for films. It has been calibrated by a senior ISF guru. I have directly compared my DVDs of various films played through my progressive scan Panasonic XP-50 with the same film being broadcast. Yes, of course the Hi Def is better but the difference is nowhere near as great as you say.
I have a Loewe Planus direct view TV in my bedroom with a Camelot Roundtable DVD-player, connected via RGB with 3 separate kimber D-90 digital cables. It's NOT behind true HDTV broadcast AT ALL!
OK, I may have exagerated a bit...But only a little !Could I live with DVD? Sure..My point is that I have seen how much better it can be and I want it. If HDTV movies could be purchased I would buy them. I would be first in line for a whole new set of LoTR extended version movies in HDTV.. The DVD's would make nice coasters.
Hi Lep,
Intresting problem.
Here in the uk there are some DVD recorders that have Component and also Progressive scan input.
Am not shure if you could record HDTV signals into them?Here in the uk HDTV is not very well known,we have been bombarded with DVD day and night and 24/7.
I did travel to the USA and spent a year living there.
I got to use a HDTV set up and i was speechless to say the least.
I felt like throwing all my DVD,S in the bin.
I cannot understand why the rest of the World has not addopted this system.
Good idea about the DVD coasters,
I have been inclined to make the odd frisby out of a Laserdisk,
But not many......Cheers,
Ian.
And after that there will be something else. That is what the retail business requires (ask Circuit City).HDTV (given a good signal) is indeed much better, however the players that upgrade 480p to 720p (or 1080i) are nothing to laugh at (especially via DVI). As it has taken DVD years to even approach the library of Laserdisc (I won't even talk about VHS) the investment will be maintained. And, yes I still have my LD-S2 and discs (I also have a scaler, which helps a bunch). Some of my films are still not available on DVD. My advice would be (given that one need spend very little to get an excellent player), go ahead. But in this field, as with personal computers, whatever you buy will be surpassed during your drive home. I would accept it, plan around it and enjoy the films now. To each his own, however.
There were some HDTV tapes available to high end projector/plasma retailers and there are HDTV VHS recorders. How much (if any) is in the retail domain I do not know.
There are some extremely knowledgeable people in this forum. Perhaps they will help.
Hi Auricle,
Just read your post,
YYYYYEEEERRRRRSSSS -> Absolutely bang on 100%---> EXELLENT.I am a collector of hi fi and also audio visual.
I have brands from Audio Research,Oracle,Croft,Souther,Pioneer,Counterpoint and many others.I also have a few freinds who,Like me ar avvid audio & AV enthusiasts.
We have spent countless days and nights swapping cables,Amps,TVs and just about everything else.Firstly your choice of player - The LDS2 - What a a machine,My freind has one and also the LDS1.I have also had Laserdisk players and films,My freind has over 1000 of the disks.
Its been intresting following th rise of DVD Auricle,yes shure when it first came out everybody was over the moon with it.
The super sharp picture,the low screen noise,The extras,the list goes on.
But then i and many others started to say,Er ok this is good but its lacking something,Some vital ingrediant that makes me feel like i have this or that title in my collection and i can keep it for ever.This vital ingrediant in my honest opinion is "DEPTH TO THE IMAGE".
DVD has none,None what so ever,The Colours are like something from a cartoon,The contrast ratio is ludicrous(whites are way to white and dark tones are way to dark.I sit and try to watch a DVD movie but get ULTRA FATIGEED at the bombardment of razor sharp edges and clinical screen appearance,Its as iff i am watching some sort of video game intro.
And before all the people who relish DVd blast me i do admit,There are some good attempts at creating a good FILMIC QUALITY,But i feel that beacuse of the contrasts in saturation and detail'the depth of field is completely hindered.
As an example i like to think of a famous painting in an art gallery from Turner etc,If his paintings had more resolution i think they would instantly loose there appeal,As they are they are just wright'Just like Laserdisk.
With Laserdisk i watch the FILM AND NOT THE HARDWARE.
With dvd i watch the HARDWARE AND NOT THE FILM.
I have seen HDTV in action and it is so far in front,I think it should be used everywear,the Colour compreshion that DVD has is no whear to be seen.
Everything seems to be getting smaller in AV these days,First we had the Viynl being replaced with something that was a big joke,Then Laserdisk with its awsome sound and relaxing image quality being replaced with a disk that has been compressed to the max?Give me VHS over DVD anyday,It might not have the extras or the other things but i can atleast watch with ease.
I hope there is light at the end of this bleek AV tunnel.
HDTV RRRRRRROOOOOOOCCCKKKKSSSSSSS............
Ian.
I also collect audio gear. I found a mint AR LS2B pre at a pawn shop in Arlington VA a couple of years ago and paid $300. Can you believe it? It still sits in my 2 Channel stereo and was by far my best find.Now I am trying to find a way to use my 2 channel stereo with my home theatre. My plan is to mix my good stuff with moderately priced gear for the center and rear channels. Its going to be an interesting mix of Yamaha and Conrad Johnson.
My sys:
Mitsubishi 73"
Conrad Johnson MV60
Audio Research LS2B
Thiel 1.6
Rega 2000 CD
Hi Lep,
Thanks for the post,
Wow,An LS-2 for $300 bucks,Cooool,Awsome.
I am also a collector of AV and Also audio.
I have had some crazy bargains myself Lep,Here is my list of hi fi:
CROFT 2 BOX MEGA MICRO 14 VALVE PRE AMP WITH VALVE PSU.
CROFT SERIES 4 VALVE POWER AMP.
ORACLE DELPHI T/TABLE WITH SOUTHER ARM.
AUDIO RESEARCH DAC-1
AUDIO RESEARCH TRANSPORT
DECCA KEELY KARDIOID RIBBON HORN SPEAKERS WITH 12" DECCA MIDD/BASS.Here is my list of cinema gear:
SANYO PLC 200PB VIDEO PROJECTOR
PIONEER THX CINEMA RECIEVER
PIONEER LASERDISK PLAYER
TOSHIBA DVD PLAYER(WAS FREE).I like your idea of combining the audio and video in one Lep.
I also tried this with the Decca Kelly speakers and an Audio research SP9 amplifier i once had.The results were utterly amazing,I tryed Crouching tiger hidden draggon(hong kong pressing)and the sword fight seen near the end was bewildering through the Deccas and a spare Nad 2200 power amp.
One set up i think would be awsome would be to use some Magneplanner panel speakers(5)for cinema,The soundstage would be massive.
Some of the hi fi listed was purchased at a crazy price.
The Croft pre amp was dumped in the back of a hi fi shop,Being sold due to its sheer size.
It is tottaly dual mono and hard wired throughout,I paid £200 uk pounds for it,New was over £2000.The Decca speakers i have cost me £100,Unbelevable???????
The combination of Ribbon and conventional midd/bass is stellar.
The Dac-1 was £180 and is the best dijital product i have ever heard.It always amazes me how if people looked around they could have such bargains instead of the new tripe thats made today.
Hope all goes well with the system,
Cheers,
Ian.P.S. I did borrow an LS-2 myself,and it kicked ass.
Very nice gear. I am very curious about those speakers you have. How well is the projector working for you? I considered one, but decided against because of expense and upkeep. Your projector must fit into your stereo very nicely without being in the way of the sound. ( Im still tring to come up with a solution for the behemoth between my loudspeakers.Its funny how people toss aside great gear like that when " The latest and greatest" comes around. People like us are smart enough to rake it all up. The mentality is that a great piece of gear is less great when a better one is made. ( Does it not still sound the way it did before an upgrade came around?). Meanwhile we pay pennies on the dollar for the gear,( Or pounds in your case )
I found the LS2B in a pawn shop and went home to research it over the internet. I don't think I've ever driven so fast to get back to a store. I then layed it on thick... The salesperson told me that they couldnt believe the blue book value of the device and said at the time it was worth over 1000. I then asked if they knew how old the tube was ( All a load of BS). I told them I would give them 300 considering that the tube was very expensive to fix and they didnt know its age. The fell for it it, and I walked away with an extra $100 in my pocket. ( My top offer would have been $400).
Lep
Hi Lep,
Great post,
Thanks.Amazing story about the ARc LS-2,You did a great job with the explenation Lep.I guess its kind of like telling them you had knowledge but not too much to let any important info out.
I would have also ran very fast down the street,I have had some similar experiences.I bought a Transcriptors turntable for £90($160).
A set of Quad electrostatic 57 speakers for £50($95).Also a Neo geo videogame (veiwpoint) that was over £200 when it first came out,I paid £15 and ran faster than a fedex parcel to get home.
The Decca Kelly Kardioid speakers are tottaly awsome Lep,I once had some Magneplanner speakers,Very good but didnt fit into a smallish room.
As it turned out the Deccas far superseed the maggies in every way.
The"FOCUS" of the midrange is exepmlery.
The Decca was desighned by STANLEY KELLY in the uk.
The concept started out as a ribbon horn speaker which employed a ribbon element held in place in a magnetic chamber,the horn was added to raise efficeny.The result was a legend in audio here in the uk.
The beauty with the Decca desighn is that they can be mixed and matched to many differnt midd/bass drivers'get it right and you are in for a treat.I was real lucky beacuse not only did i end up with the Horns and ribbons but also a set of Decca Kelly speaker encloshures which house Decca 12"Midd and bass drivers.The Drivers are like no others i have ever seen.I have the instruction booklet and some of the desighn is bewildering,they can operate in sub zero tempritures,Be pushed very hard,And are made from redicoulusly large peices of aliminium on the rear.
In fact a freind had just come back from the London hi fi show and had a listen to my system. He didnt say anything for ten minuites and then just said"Ian'i just saw speakers costing tens of thousands of pounds and not one of them was even close to what you have".
The first time i tried them Lep i was awstruck at a sound that you could litteraly walk around and inside of,Its kind of like the beauty and freedom of a Ribbon element matched with the solidity and impact of a bass driver,The pair jell together like Dolly partens brarre.?
With the Croft pre amplifiers lep it is exactly the same as you stated about old beating new,To look at they are nothing to shout home about'But take the cover of and "qwaaar" yeeer?
Dual mono,No pcb,Hard wired,Valve regulated and extra ordinary layout.The thing with Croft gear is that it can be had so cheaply new or seconhand,His box desighns have also got very good lately.
On the second hand market they can be had from £100 upwards.
They built many models,My freind has one of the best amplifiers i have ever heard ever.It is a Croft OTL valve amplifier,We pitted it against some exotic amps costing in the region of £10,000---And the results,I had to walk around outside to get some fresh air,Honestly nothing at all had prepared me for its sonic onslaught.
The sheer purity and effortlessness of its midrange was past and beyond meer hi fi and into the relms of imagination.
He picked it up for £300 beacuse it was dumped at the back of a hi fi shop beacuse the power switch was defective???????????????
It hails back to the Futterman desighns.I recall my freind burning tarmac to get to the Bank that day.
Croft can be found at www.emminentaudio.co.uk (also in the US aswell).With the projector i bought it after visting my uncle in Dallas,He had a Sharp unit and projected the film "THE ABBYS" on the living room wall.
I was hooked and when i got back to the Uk i saved up and bought the Sanyo plc 200pb after reading all the good reviews it got.The item cost an arm and a leg,Ebay hadnt been invented then.As for set up i have had the unit shining on a neighbours house when we had some Snow,I put STAR WARS on Laserdisk on and it was hhuugggeeee,In fact all the family where in the garden at 2 am sitting on det chairs and eating hot dogs while the Milenuim Falcon blasted across the guys roof.
I use it mainly in an upstairs room,I get a 70 inch screen and mainly use it for video games consoles,It can go to 300 inches if you have the space.
It has inputs for SVHS,SCART,COMPOSITE and audio,It can handle any tv system accept hdtv.Compared to todays modern equivlents its a little underspecified but what it does have is a fantastick filmic quality to the image.
What i did to get the screen in front of the speakers was to fix a screen in a window cill,Then it can easily be pulled down and conceals the window up,Also blocks any daylight out aswell,I bought a projector screen on a tripod and simply took the tripod legs off and fixed it up,Great.Interms of reliabilty you have a very good point Lep,The bulb lasts 2000hrs which doesnt sound a great lot,But will last a long time.
This is about average for LCD projectors,Although some have now gone up to 6000 hrs.Some really good ones i have borrowed were from INFOCUS,The LP720 was very,very good.It can handle a pc input'So the best route would be to hook up a dvd player and use a Component converter box from Infocus.
I have had other experinecs in buting some hi fi etc Lep.I once bought huge widescreen tv and had to hire a Taxi to get it home,It didnt fit in the back of the car so i had to position it in the boot and have the lid open,Thing was we live on a very steep hill on our estate,When we arrived home i had to go behind the back of the car and 5 neighbours had to help me hold this huge tv in the bonnet whilst the Taxi driver tried to get up the hill.
Needless to say my back felt like doormat and my neighbours thought i was nuts?.Great to read your posts Lep,
Amazing whats out there,
An Aladdins cave if ever there was one,
Thankyou,
Kind regards,
Ian.
I had an LDS-2 for years and toward the end of the laserdisc era purchased a Pioneer Elite CDL-79 to have as a backup in case anything happened to the LDS-2. I was amazed to find out that the new player FAR outdid the LDS-2 in terms of both picture and sound.
So the LDS-2 has become the backup (actually the second backup sinceI bought another CDL-79).The CDL-79 plays both sides both sides of an LD, has Dolby Digital 5.1, and also is a fantastic CD player with a separate drawer which disengages the video circuitry. The build quality is nowhere near that oif the LDS-2 (what is?) but the performance is clearly (pun intended) better.
I have 900 laserdiscs and 600 DVDs. IMHO DVDs offer a better picture, especially through a progressive scan player. Most are anamorphic widescreen and all have some form of DD or DTS sound.
Laseriscs and the LDS-2 were state of the art in 1990 but that was long, long ago.
The LD-S2 has by far the best chassis and isolation Pioneer ever made before the Japanese Muse HDTV player.I had a CLD 97 in my previous place for comparison for comparison. The RFI/EMI rejection was far inferior, though some parts of the circuitry was superiour. The LD-S2, you will remember, is copper and copper plated chassis. Given that result, I modified a few things in the circuitry (auto side flip means nada to me) and it was better that the 97. But only on analogue projectors. For example, on CRTs (Zenith 900 for example with doubler, of course)it has a smootheness that is very film like. On digital projectors, it may not be (eh, is not) as good as the 99, not to mention the Muse player.
I hold on to it because I love the acoustic isolation, its rejection, its composite image (the general opinion is that the S-VHS/comb filter was better on the CLD-x series, but that the composite was better on the LD-S2), the fact that it was (retail) $3,500 new (I didn't pay much less) and the fact that it occasionally shows up, in a dramatic way, the problems with DVD, even at this late date.
Besides, I think the player and my LaserDisc of "El Topo" have an affair goin" after all these years!!!!
Cheers for now
You make an excellent point. When Hi Def DVDs arrive, it will take YEARS to reach the library that present DVD has. And I still have 900 laserdiscs of films yet to appear on DVD.
how many laser discs were/are in print and how many DVDs are we up to, ballpark?How many laser disc titles do you own and how many DVDs out of curiousity?
Thanks, Chris
900 Laserdiscs and 600 DVDs. And one VHS tape ("Sahara").
High Definition tapes are available, but a JVC or Marantz D-Theater machine must be used. They are mostly recorded in 1080i, though they do support 720p playback. Do a Google search for "D-Theater" or click on the link to see more (right hand side of the page).
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