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Hello Joe
It appears that you are very knowledgeable on all things video. Would you be so kind to answer me a question.
How would you spend 3.5k-4k on a TV set? The bigger the screen the better. Not interested in a bulky rptv. LCD,DLP or maybe plasma will do. Anything good just off the horizon I should wait for?
Im not asking you to research it for me, just "off the top of your head" :^)Thanks a bunch,
Emil
Follow Ups:
There will be DLP sets coming out in a couple of months with the new HD2+ chip from Toshiba, Panasonic and Samsung.
From what I understand, some of the Samsung sets will have optional built-in HDTV tuner. Not a big deal to some but I like the idea because it eliminates yet another 'box' taking up space in my equipment rack. I do watch OTA HDTV now with my external tuner.If I could, I think I would get plasma but at my elevation the plasma screens buzz. DLP looks very good but I still think plasma looks better. Anyone?
I really liked the look of their next models that stand on a single "pillar". But then I started to wonder where would my center channel speaker go? Can't go under the TV, and putting it on top isn't practical, unless they provide some sort of a shelf, which I don't think they do (and the concern about the screen picking up and transmitting the vibrations from the speaker.
I saw that DLP model with the single pillar support. You have a good point about where to place the center channel speaker. With my CRT set, I have the center channel on top. It would take up too much rack space so even if placing it on top of the set isn't ideal, it's most practical for me in this case.
You just know that a lot of guys are going to fall for how cool it looks, then get it home and ask themselves where to put the center speaker. Can't go underneath, and can't go on top (there's almost no ledge on the Sammy DLP's, unless you build one, and the chassis is so lightweight, vibrations from the center speaker would probably cause the screen to resonate).That leaves wall mounted speakers. But unless you recess TV into the wall, it's going to stick out a couple of feet, which will look a little strange, but might work ok.
Bet picture, have dealer set it up to prevent green shade problems.
Good call DUI. I have a Sammy. Great picture. I had mine calibrated. No green tint.
I had an HLN (50 inch model). I experienced the AV sync problem - - sound & video did not match (like a bad dubbed movie).Waited months for a fix. Samsung promised a fix, including swapping out the TV's internals. Never materialised. A month ago, they started offering a straight trade for the next gen model (when they're released). Had a candid chat with people at the co in the know. They confirmed that the new models "might" still have the same problem. But they offered me another option - a flat refund for what I paid (not including the bloody CA sales tax).
So now I have my money back and am waiting for the next best thing to come out. Hopefully it will be from Samsung - - they treated me well. But I'll spend more time evaluating before my next buy.
Uh-oh, I wish I would have seen this sooner. Bought the HLN617W last week and the A/V is out of sync. Just now notified Samsung and have no clue to what they will do for me, hope it isn't a $4000. mistake.
Is the audio sync problem an issue across the board with the Samsung DLP sets? Why hasn't there been more talk about this? Does it happen in all modes of operation or only with some source material? Does it happen only with the Samsung internal speakers or in your home theater setup using a processor/receiver?I'm seriously considering a Samsung DLP set toward the end of this year but the audio sync problem now has me concerned.
This problem for some reason has not been covered on this site much, if at all (I haven't checked all the past threads, so that's an off the cuff opinion). If you want to read about it in detail, go to the AVS Forum web site and get into the rear projection section. All you need to do is search under "Samsung AV Synch" and you'll find tons of information.In general, the problem exists on all their current "HLN" line of DLP rear projectors. And from my conversations w/Samsung's tech support, it apparently has not been resolved with their next HLP line that is coming out shortly. But, it's also variable, depending upon lots of unpredictable factors. Some people don't experience much of a problem, while it drives others nuts (much like the "rainbow" effect some experience with DLP projectors). Because of the various factors, you might not experience this when you demo the TV at the retailer.
But the indisputable fact is that Samsung itself has admitted the problem, to the point of offering trade-ups for the next generation of models, or complete refunds for others who don't want to wait.
For me, it was best to turn in the TV and wait it out for a while. I truly hope Samsung gets this fixed, because they've earned my future business with their outstanding customer service. Personally, I think DLP is a interium technolgy. I don't know of any other high tech electronics with so many moving parts. Think about all the things that have to be precisely timed, with all those micro mirrors, the spinning color wheel, etc. I expect that my next purchase will be a plasma or LCD flat pannel. Their prices are dropping fast, and they don't have moving parts that have to work in unison like DLP's.
In the mean time, I bought a $200 20 inch Toshiba CRT. I expect it's the last CRT I'll ever buy. Funny thing is, it wasn't too difficult adjusting from a 50" HD display to a 20 SD TV (although it does look really strange in my high end setup - - Lexicon MC12, Aragon 8008's, etc.).
Good luck.
Larry
Thank you for that very enlightening post. The LCDs are starting to look better to me now as well as my trusty Panasonic toob.Thanks
Emil
Me too.... I think I'll keep the CRT for a while longer. Plasma won't work for me and direct-view LCD still costs more than plasma.
Duilawyer
Have you experienced the "rainbow" Joe speaks of? What dealer did you buy from that performed the setup? I dont think it was Best Buy or Circuit City types or was it?
When I first got my set, I saw rainbows when I quickly lookedaway from the set. Now I don't see thm at all.
Not everyone sees the rainbows when watching DLP displays. And, the 5 - 10% of people that do can be divided into two groups -- those that don't mind and those that get "sick". Those that don't mind tend to see the rainbows every now and then. They don't really stand out for these people, so the picture quality they get in the mean time is worth it to them. Those that do mind the rainbows either experience bad headaches or nausea from watching DLP sets. Believe it or not, some of the people that experience the physical affects don't ever report seeing rainbows. They just know that when they watch this type of display, they become physically ill.The reason I recommend bringing others along, at least to a demo or two, is to see if anyone else in the family is affected by the picture. It seems to occur more often in the 50" and up range.
it would be nice being like "normal" people. Going to a Best Buy, taking a look around and telling the salesman,"I want that one". Taking it home and enjoying without a second thought.
Physically ill? With my luck, i finally convince the wife to go for a 4k TV and then having to explain to her that its the TV thats making her sick
Rainbows: some see it, some dont. I guess its like seeing the figure of the Virgin Mary in a a carpet stain.
Some see it, some dont.I did spend some time over at AVS. There is some talk of the new DLPs with the new Texas Instruments chip. Hopefully it will address these problems. I guess they should be out soon since the retailers are dropping the price of the current DLps.
.All three, plasma/LCD/DLP, will give me a picture I'll be happy with.My biggest concern is reliablity and thats the reason why Im leaning towards the DLPs. From what I've read, the "no burn in" and easy replacement of the bulb appeals to me. The dead pixels on the LCDS worries me. Would you agree so far?
I know the $$$$ are making you nervous, but don't let it get to you. Take the wife to a few demos and see how she likes the picture on the DLP sets. Remember, only a small percentage of people have any adverse affects from the technology. It's not like it's a 50-50 shot, it's only a few percent. Look on the bright side, less time in front of the TV leaves more time for sex. If that doesn't do it, is there any way that you can trade in the wife if she does see rainbows, but you just love the picture?I wouldn't worry about the dead pixels on the RP LCDs either. From several feet away, even if you had two dead pixels together, you won't notice it. The dead pixel complaint comes from people that just have to put their nose right up to the display and check for the minutest flaw. You don't sound like that anal of a person. What you do have to worry about with the rear projection LCDs is the poor black level detail. At best, it can be called washed out. Black level capability is an important factor for me in display technology. While digital displays can equal CRT (none of them, although Panasonic's plasma glass comes very close), RP LCD is the worst. Now, if poor black level detail doesn't bother you, does the animated, almost cartoonish look of the RP LCDs bother you? If not, give them some consideration.
By the way, I am just exaggerating a bit with the picture description of the RP LCD displays. And I did say " a bit".
If any AV purchase is "easy" you're not doin' it right! LOL...And rainbows aren't like visions of the Virgin - most folks don't fervently hope to see rainbows on their display.
Seriously. Don't agonize too much. You've got it more or less in a nutshell. At least now you know you don't have to gas up a plasma after 6,000 hours. (BTW, no burn-in with LCDs, either.) You are so gonna love having a new TV.
Seriously, just go to the stores when the new DLPs arrive and look at some sets. Wait for some contrasty content to appear on the screen. Move your eyes from side to side. If you and your wife don't see the rainbows and don't get sick - rejoice! You're done.
Except for a DVI DVD player, HD cable box, cabling...
I'm not willing to give you anything off the top of my head. It seems that all of my brothers-in-law are either bald or nearly bald, so I'd like to keep my status as "the one with hair". You don't mind, do you?
:-)There are pros and cons for each display type. Before I purchased my plasma (Panasonic TH-50PHD6UY) and the accessories that I wanted (DVI-HDCP card, wall mount, DVI cable), I spent a great deal of time researching, reading and observing displays. The plasma package I put together cost me just under $6.5k in February 2004. I could have spent more (several times more, actually) or I could have spent less -- for other display types and for an even larger display. But for my display criteria, this was the display that best net what I wanted. You may have similar criteria or you may have completely different criteria for completely different viewing habits and environment. You would have to decide which display type gives you more of the pros you are looking for and then decide if you could live with it's cons. For me, a plasma display (actually, one based on Panasonic glass) satisfied that criteria.
Since you didn't mention a minimum size and only gave a dollar amount, I'll do my best to give you some options. For the $ amount you listed , the best choice in plasma technology would be the Panasonic TH-42PHD6UY. This is a 42" plasma monitor (no tuner and no speakers, but it does have an internal stereo amp). You would need an outboard tuner (VCR, Set Top Box, etc) to watch regular television and/or HD programming. Is a 42" display big enough for your viewing environment? The 50" is going for about $5400, including shipping, so it may be out of your $ range. For either, you would also have to get a wall mount (Sanus Systems VMPL or VMPL2 wall mounts are $130 to $150 delivered) or a table stand ($150 - $199). If you want a digital video connection (DVI-HDCP), the video card is $200. ***
As for DLP, you can get several 50" models in that price range. I'm speaking of Rear Projection units, not Front Projectors (I can't comment on Front Projectors). They don't take up too much room and give a picture that is very nice.
I would stay away from Rear Projection LCD displays. I know plenty of people are going crazy over these displays, but they are -- for lack of better word -- crap. Black levels suck worse than any other display technology and they give too much of a cartoonish animated look to everything. If you play video games for hours on end, this is the display type to get. Video games look great on a Rear Projection LCD display. But that's about it.
Another technology that's out there, LCoS, has had some troubles. Several manufacturers have tried their hand at getting it to work, but they've all either abandoned it or are replacing faulty units. Philips seems to be the only one holding onto the technology for Rear Projection displays. The technology has potential, but it may only have use in Front Projection displays.
All of this said, you didn't give too much for me to go on. I would suggest that you visit www.avsforum.com and www.hometheaterforum.com and spend some time going through the material that available in their display forums. There's a wealth of information on current models of all display types, members report good experiences and bad experiences with their displays and you might find that by spending some time reading you will be better off when you decide which display is right for you.
One piece of advice that you should heed when it comes to all online forums: disregard opinions about technolgy X when you are in technology Y's forum. I have seen too many people in the CRT/LCD/DLP RPTV forums give false information about plasma displays to the point it is outright laughable. I have also seen people bash a DLP set in the plasma forum when plasma displays have a similar fault. Many people in the forums have agendas and feel the need to justify their purchase by bashing others. Gradually, you learn which posters to trust as knowledgeable and providers of accurate information and which posters to just ignore.
If you have any specific questions or can better describe your situation (Do you watch mostly movies? Sports? Regular television? Plenty of light in the room? Dark/low light room? Distance from display? DVD player type? Minimum size display needed?), I'd be glad to reply.
*** The consumer version of Panasonic's 42" HD display is the TH-42PX20U and the TH-42PX25U (newer model that includes a HD cable tuner). They come with stands and speakers and the video inputs are more plentiful. If you're not a videophile, I'd gravitate more towards these models. If you are a videophile, I'd sway more towards the commercial model PHD6UY series. That is, if a 42" plasma is better suited for your wants and needs, if at all.
Many thanks, Joe.
A concern of mine is no matter how good the TV set is, its only as good as the signal it receives. Im planning on going with "digital" cable. I put digital in quotes because Ive read its still an analog signal. Im not sure how true that statement is. This concerns me because most of what I watch will be cable broadcast with a few DVDs on the weekends.
Thanks for suggesting the Panny 42 inch plasma but a 50 inch is something I would prefer. Something like this maybe.
Familiar with PlasmaDepot?
Quality on my Brighthouse digital cable varies. Generally, the premium channels usually look the best (HBO) and the analog pass through look the worst. The HD cable content varies from very good to excellent. You'll get occassional artifacts depending on the provider and content, but usually it's a minor annoyance.Since the content I care about the most - movies, Discovery, sports, PBS - looks good, I've learned to live with the rest. (I don't care if QVC looks bad.) On the whole,I'm pleased, and I woudln't fret too much over SD on a 50" DLP. Even the analogue should be tolerable.
BTW, I'm a very picky person about my picture quality but I don't see rainbows on the 50" DLP sets. Murph is right, take a DVD to test - but don't take Finding Nemo or Monsters Inc - digital animation looks great on every digital display I've ever seen. Take a movie with a lot of movement, strong diagonal lines and dark scenes like The Two Towers or Master & Commander. These are all areas where a display (or a DVD player) can let you down. Also ask to see a prgram through a local cable feed if possible. This may tell you if you can tolerate the set's standard definition capabilites.
Keep inmind, most big box stores (CC,BB et al) do not have their sets properly set up. Be prepared to do some adjusting with the remote before evaluating each contender.
I like the latest LCD rear projectors better than Murph, but it's true the shadow detail and deepest blacks aren't as good as the DLPS. (I absolutely hated earlier LCD models and couldn't understand why anyone would buy one. The lastest ones from Sony and Hitachi are very watchable for me, although the Panny is till too blue.)
I bought my current (CRT) widescreen HDTV over the internet and was totally happy, but read up before you do this with a plasma or DLP. I wouldn't worry about scammers necesarily - many of these companies are very good to deal with - but these complex displays can be temperamental. It's much easier to call up Ciricuit City and have 'em replace your set than it is to ship a defective one halfway across the country.
One thing you may have picked up on - the recs are all fixed pixel displays: plasma, DLP, LCD.
I've found the most useful info at avsforum, as long as you heed Murph's caveat about owner bias vs "other" technologies. There is no perfect display yet, but there's plenty to enjoy in the meatime.
Finally, invst in at least a digital Video Essentials calibration disc, or a professional ISF calibration at best.
Many of the channels offered in the cable companies' digital tier are actually analog signals (just like their analog cable) that have been digitized. However, there are some channels in their digital offering that are delivered to them as digital signals. Unfortunately, just like satellite TV, the picture quality depends on the provider and how much compression is used. There are some very nice digital channels and there are some very poor digital channels.See if you can find some reviews of this model in the forums that I recommended. If a 50" display is more fitting to your needs, at your price-point, I'd suggest a DLP display. Just be sure to bring some DVDs that you are familiar with when you demo the display. DLP displays are known to produce an artifact called "rainbows" in some viewers. Along with seeing the "rainbows", some viewers even get headaches and suffer from motion sickness-like nausea. It's best to get other family members in on the demo (if others besides you will be watching the display) to be sure that no one is susceptible to this phenomenon. If anyone has a problem, it usually starts in the 50" and up DLP display category.
I am not familiar with Plasma Depot.
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